[WikiEN-l] WP:EXPLAINBLOCK status (Re: Fwd: Fwd: Re: [arbcom-appeals-en] Appeal by Chealer)

Sun Aug 30 15:15:37 UTC 2015

Hi Kevin,
Your involvement is appreciated, whether or not it leads to any real change.

However, even your message suggests that the BASC is not alone to consider WP:EXPLAINBLOCK as outside of policy. Since several administrators seem to take that stance while no one supports WP:EXPLAINBLOCK, I really think WP:EXPLAINBLOCK should not remain as is (again, I support the spirit behind WP:EXPLAINBLOCK, and am not saying here it is undesirable per se).

After my initial message, I realized there is an alternative to rewording WP:EXPLAINBLOCK, i.e. simply removing it from policy. This could be a pure removal or merely moving out of any policy page. The section could be moved to a guideline page. On the other hand, the Wikipedia:Blocking policy page is a structured whole. Removing parts simply because they are not actually policy would hurt the structure. There are other parts of the page which are explanatory rather than normative. But changing the page into 3 pages (a policy page, a guideline page and an informational page) is not a good idea in terms of accessibility. Perhaps it is time to devise a way to publish rules outside of policy pages. A page could contain any number of numbered norms, each of which could have a certain level of support.

On 2015-08-07 09:02, Kevin Gorman wrote:
> I will say on the face of it, I'm pretty disappointed at how this
> looks.  Chealer's block record was not very long - yes, counting JzG's
> he received three recent blocks, but there are plenty of people who do
> little productive who have worse records. And frankly, two of those
> blocks were for trivial reasons - 3rr, and for editing an archive? I
> don't think I've ever seen anyone blocked for a week for editing an
> archive.  More so: I'm disappointed that although Chealer requested
> diffs of what exact part of his behavior was disruptive, he only
> received one link from anyone.  Surely we can do better than this?
> JzG's initial block offer explicitly indicated a willingness to lift
> the ban if Chealer altered his behavior... but then JzG never posted
> on his talk page again.  Moreover, JzG's initial block statement was
> insufficient - you don't get to indef a long time community member and
> just say the reasons are "obvious".
>
> Once I have more time to examine this block later today, I'm going to
> be tempted to restore Chealer's talkpage access, because JzG's initial
> block offer explicitly included an offer to unblock him if he changed
> his behavior, and that obviously can't be done if he can't even talk.
> I'll also ping JzG to the page because I'd hope the initial blocking
> administrator would be the person to work this out, but if he doesn't
> show up and Chealer's 'record of disruption' seems like something
> where he can agree to a set of conditions that will mitigate any
> future disruption, I'll be awfully tempted to act in JzG's stead in
> implementing his offer....  That's certainly not an offer that can be
> implemented with TPA and JzG MIA.
>
> This could be a perfectly good block.  But JzG's initial block notice
> and subsequent discussion on the page don't make it obvious that it's
> a good block.  I'll be reviewing the entire situation later including
> all of Chealer's recent edits (I've only looked  at the talk page and
> block log atm,) and may find it to be an entirely good block, but if
> not I intend to restore Chealer's talk page access, ping JzG to the
> page so that we can discuss JzG's initial offer, and if JzG doesn't
> show up (to me, it's weird to use "you know what you did" block
> message on anyone but vandals,) given that JzG initially showed a
> willingness to unblock CHealer, if I work out a set of conditions that
> I'm confident will mitigate any future problems, I'll be awfully
> tempted to unblock Chealer myself.  (And again, I may find an
> indefinite block totally appropriate here - it's just not at all
> obvious from the block message or from future discusssion on the
> page.)
>
> Even though this has already gone to BASC, I'm pretty sure these
> actions would be within my authority as an administrator - someone
> correct me if I'm wrong please.
>
> Best,
> Kevin Gorman
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 5:43 AM, Filipus Klutiero<chealer at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> I am forwarding the last mail promised in
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2015-August/111154.html
>> This is the last mail in the thread on JzG's case (regarding WP:EXPLAINBLOCK
>> violations). It quotes the 2 other mails in that thread (as well as the
>> original report).
>>
>> The only mail from the BASC in this thread is entirely quoted, except for
>> pre-written paragraphs.
>>
>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> Subject:        Fwd: Re: [arbcom-appeals-en] Appeal by Chealer
>> Date:   Sat, 27 Jun 2015 13:38:20 -0400
>> From:   Filipus Klutiero<chealer at gmail.com>
>> To:arbcom-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>> During the first week of June, I was told by Chris McKenny that the Ban
>> Appeals Subcommittee considered User:JzG's 2015-04-13 block as
>> policy-compliant. As can be seen in the forwarded mail, I asked Chris to
>> explain shortly after, hoping to understand the subcommittee's stance on
>> this issue, but have not received a reply so far.
>>
>> I have not retired yet, and I intend to treat this issue in my retirement
>> letter, which is why I hereby ask other members to explain your position.
>>
>> By the way, I noticed that a reform is already being discussed (see
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Ban_appeals_reform_2015
>> ).
>>
>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>> Subject:        Re: [arbcom-appeals-en] Appeal by Chealer
>> Date:   Sun, 07 Jun 2015 12:37:58 -0400
>> From:   Filipus Klutiero<chealer at gmail.com>
>> To:     Chris McKenna<thryduulf.wiki at gmail.com>
>> CC:     English Arbitration Committee mailing list (appeals)
>> <arbcom-appeals-en at lists.wikimedia.org>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Chris,
>>
>> On 2015-06-04 04:39, Chris McKenna wrote:
>>> Hello Chealer
>>>
>>> The Arbitration Committee has carefully considered your application and
>>> declines to unblock at this time.
>> Thank you for the prompt response.
>>
>>> After examining your conduct we have determined that the current block and
>>> block log message are correct and compliant with policy.
>> Please provide the committee's deliberations on this issue. If this is not
>> possible, did the committee have a unanimous stance?
>>
>>
>>
>> [...]
>>> *---
>>> Chris McKenna (Thryduulf)*
>>> thryduulf.wiki at gmail.com  <mailto:thryduulf.wiki at gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Unless otherwise noted, opinions expressed in this email are solely my own
>>> and do not necessarily represent the views of the Arbitration Committee as a
>>> whole.
>>>
>>> On 17 May 2015 at 17:50, Chealer <chealer at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:chealer at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>      Update: My first 2 attempts to submit this email apparently failed, as
>>> discussed on #wikipedia-en and #wikimedia-stewards. Please excuse and ignore
>>> in case the first attempts actually worked.
>>>      --------------------------------------------
>>>      I have never used any other username on Wikipedia.
>>>
>>>
>>>      The latest block on my account, imposed by User:JzG, violates the
>>> blocking policy (per WP:EXPLAINBLOCK).
>>>
>>>
>>>      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Chealer#Blocked  (excluding the
>>> unrelated "Related AN notice" subsection) is the relevant on-wiki
>>> discussion. The UTRS appeal is #13664.
>>>
>>>
>>>      The administrator who reviewed my UTRS appeal rejected implying that
>>> my actions were disruptive and mentioning he "f[ou]nd this block justified".
>>> Since I had no chance to reply, I would like to make it clear that my
>>> appeals do *not* mean I consider the block "unjustified". While I would not
>>> say that "[my] actions were [...] disruptive", I will not go as far as to
>>> claim that not one of the 10 000+ actions I performed on the English
>>> Wikipedia over 10+ years has been disruptive. In fact, I know that some of
>>> these were erroneous, and I have no doubt that I have neither fixed myself
>>> nor recognized in any way some of my errors, even if we only count those I
>>> already noticed. JzG's block could be "justified" in the sense that a
>>> justification for it could have been provided. All I am asking for with this
>>> appeal is to revoke JzG's block. I am *not* asking to be "unblocked" in the
>>> sense that my account should be free to edit again. If any administrator
>>> thinks my contributions call
>>>      for a new block, then that administrator is free to implement it in
>>> compliance with policy.
>>>      To be perfectly clear, the outcome of this appeal will be correct as
>>> long as the current block is repealed, whether my account ends up affected
>>> by a policy-compliant block or not.
>>>
>>>      By the way, I really appreciate the BASC Status ("Currently, you can
>>> expect your appeal to be decided in ~ 6 weeks."). It would be nice to
>>> precise "Currently" though - or even better, allow making appeals public.
>>> Oh, and "Email me a copy of my message." is really nice meanwhile.
>>>
>>>      --
>>>      This email was sent by user "Chealer" on the English Wikipedia to user
>>> "Ban Appeals Subcommittee". It has been automatically delivered and the
>>> Wikimedia Foundation cannot be held responsible for its contents.
>>>
>>>      The sender has not been given the recipient's email address, nor any
>>> information about his/her email account; and the recipient has no obligation
>>> to reply to this email or take any other action that might disclose his/her
>>> identity. If you respond, the sender will know your email address. For
>>> further information on privacy, security, and replying, as well as abuse and
>>> removal from emailing, see<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Email>.
>>>
>>>      _______________________________________________
>>>      ArbCom-appeals-en mailing list
>>>      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BASC
>>>      https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/arbcom-appeals-en
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Filipus Klutiero
>> http://www.philippecloutier.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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-- 
Filipus Klutiero
http://www.philippecloutier.com