[WikiEN-l] FBI vs. Wikipedia

[Carcharoth]

Not to be too cynical, but I hope that doesn't get speedy kept as
well. I *had* mentioned that image of the badge earlier, at the
Commons Village Pump, but no-one seemed to be that bothered. I also
suggested adding the restrictions note that Fred also added to the
image, but again, the response I got was: "We may choose to add a
warning to the file description page, as we do for several other
types, but I don't personally think it'd be very useful in this
case.".

This whole debate makes the point that when the WMF legal counsel gets
involved because some outside organisation has sent him a letter, and
this debate between lawyers then becomes public, the community
sometimes looks like a deer caught in the headlights, unsure whether
they should debate the issue, or apply what counsel has said, or ask
counsel for further advice.

The problem with the first two approaches is that the debate might end
up with the wrong result, and if people say "but we followed the WMF
legal counsel's advice" (even if they misinterpreted what he said),
that might be bad for several reasons. The problem with the third
approach is that the WMF legal counsel doesn't scale, and you can't
ask him everything about every image (though if someone thinks it
worth contacting him, they should always do so). The best of several
poor options seems to be for the community to judge as best they can,
contact the WMF legal counsel in rare cases only, and take note if an
external request leads to the WMF legal counsel over-riding a
community debate and learn the lessons from that.

On a completely different note (though I see Fred raised it as well),
is that badge really genuine? The source isn't that reliable, and it
would be nice to have a date, as I'm positive the design of such
badges has changed over the years. For all images, you really do want
to try and find the most reliable source possible, not some random
website.

Carcharoth

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:13 PM, Fred Bauder <fredbaud at fairpoint.net> wrote:
> Well, I tried that and quickly found
>
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:FBI_Badge.jpg
>
> That is not a logo but a badge and fits right inside the statute Mike and
> the FBI are discussing.
>
> http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000701----000-.html
>
> I've nominated this for deletion. There may be others. Also, this is a
> object not an image. It presents the same problems as an image of a
> statue.
>
> Fred
>
>> I think the "high resolution helps forgers and impersonators" argument is
>> spurious.
>>
>> Let's assume the logo were to be used improperly. Most people don't know
>> what the "right" logo is. A decent image quality (straight lines, etc)
>> would
>> fool most people if it looked "professional" whether technically accurate
>> or
>> not. Social engineering does the rest (not everyone will argue with
>> someone
>> who claims forcefully they are FBI). Basic image cleanup is something
>> anyone
>> can do these days and any computer can tidy up a poor quality image to
>> look
>> "clean" (photoshop). If there was doubt asd to appearance most
>> impersonators
>> only need to google image: "fbi badge" to get close enough.
>>
>> In simple terms I don't see any merit whatsoever to a claim that a good
>> quality copy helps impersonators. Any impersonator will easily be able to
>> do
>> the job well enough to fool most people, and any capable impersonator
>> will
>> not be affected by Wikimedia's decision.
>>
>> FT2
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 5:11 PM, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 8 August 2010 16:57, Charles Matthews
>>> <charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > I think I found the word, early in 2007. Misunderstanding that Gerard
>>> is
>>> > more g'day than have a nice is a poor basis for any such judgement.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, the thread has been rather non sequitur all the way down. Assume
>>> some bad faith and why, it's a microcosm!
>>>
>>>
>>> - d.
>>>
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