[WikiEN-l] SlimVirgin and CheckUser leaks
Mackan79
mackan79 at gmail.com
Sun Jul 20 11:26:07 UTC 2008
On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 4:58 AM, SlimVirgin <slimvirgin at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/19/08, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 2008/7/19 SlimVirgin <slimvirgin at gmail.com>:
> > > There was no reason at all to check the first account(s) that Lar
> > > checked.
> >
> > Your accounts? Please detail why you feel you are immune to checkuser.
> > (I ask this while reminding all here that several admins have been
> > caught severely sockpuppeting and then deadminned.)
>
> I don't feel I'm immune, but I do feel there should be a presumption
> against long-term contributors being checked, unless there are serious
> grounds to suspect abuse.
>
> But I am not complaining about the check against me. I'm complaining
> about the check against the other two. I have their permission to
> explain further.
>
> Lar was (he said) contacted privately by Mackan79 and was asked to
> perform a check on Wikitumnus and Crum375, on the grounds that they
> appeared to be sockpuppets.
>
> Mackan79 is an editor who has been trying to cause me problems for
> about 12-18 months, ever since Dmcdevit blocked him for 3RR and he
> blamed me, both for the block in the first place, and for not
> persuading Dmcdevit to unblock him. I assume that his interest in Crum
> derived from his interest in me, and that the involvement of
> Wikitumnus was to give him and Lar a back door into a check of Crum.
>
> The only "evidence" Lar had of a relationship between Wiktumnus and
> Crum was that Wikitumnus had ONCE reverted vandalism from Crum's talk
> page in November 2007 -- four months before Mackan asked Lar for a
> check. Here is the diff of the "evidence"
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Crum375&diff=172790564&oldid=172790134
> Here is Mackan79 four months later, in March 2008, saying that
> Wikitumnus appears to be another user.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AWikitumnus&diff=196887161&oldid=192350698
>
> It was on this basis that Lar performed a check of Wikitumnus a few
> days later at Mackan's request, later telling Wikitumnus and other
> checkusers and ArbCom members that there were grounds to believe that
> Wikitumnus was Crum. This is a clear fishing expedition, because there
> is *nothing* about that diff that would give rise to a suspicion of
> sockpuppetry. Wikitumnus had never edited the same articles as Crum,
> had never voted with him, had never supported him, had never shown up
> on noticeboards to comment on him, or anything else.
>
> Personally, I have no problem with allowing checkuser to be used for
> fishing *so long as the policy makes clear that it may be so used*
> because then editors can arrange to use open or closed proxies if they
> don't want their real IPs to become known during random checks. What I
> object to is the policy saying one thing, and checkusers doing
> another.
>
> When Lar performed his check of Wikitumnus, he discovered that it was
> an established editor who is well known to Lar, and who had abandoned
> their original account for various reasons. He knew *for certain* that
> this person was not Crum375. Yet he went on to peform the check of
> Crum anyway. If you want to say that, once he had checked Crum, he had
> reason to check me, then fine. Ignore the check of me. But his check
> of Wikitumnus was made on the flimsiest of grounds. And his check of
> Crum was made *on no grounds whatsoever*. That the request was made by
> a known troublemaker makes things even worse, but even if you ignore
> that too, you are left with two checks performed for no reason.
>
> Lar compounded the error by telling his wife the real identity of
> Wikitumnus. Lar's wife is another Wikipedian, not someone Wikitumnus
> has had any contact with, and also not someone Wikitumnus would choose
> to reveal their identity to. Wiktumnus was extremely upset about that
> aspect of the incident, and it was a violation of the privacy policy,
> although not one serious enough that the Ombudsman Commission wanted
> to act on.
>
> The result is that Wikitumnus felt they had to abandon their account.
> I recall an absolute storm when Durova blocked !!, an established
> editor who had abandoned his original account, but who felt his
> identity was compromised by the block. That is exactly the situation
> we have here -- an established editor with a new account is checked
> for no reason, and as a result feels unable to continue with the
> account in case their identity leaks out.
>
> The question is why Lar is allowed simply to ignore the checkuser
> policy, and why, when he does, other checkusers support him in that.
> If there is no peer pressure on checkusers to conform to the policy,
> and there is no Ombudsman who can look at checkuser policy violations,
> the only protection we have is ArbCom. But (I believe) all ArbCom
> members have checkuser and are on the checkuser mailing list, so they
> could have acted against Lar when the issue was raised there (at my
> request, among others), but they didn't. They're therefore unlikely to
> act when it's brought before them in another venue.
>
> The bottom line is that editors are left with no realistic way to
> complain about a violation of the checkuser policy, which means that
> it may as well not exist.
>
> Sarah
>
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To save Lar the trouble of having to ask me, and since it probably may as
well be shared, the basic issue with Wikitumnus I saw was that they arrived
to remove a sock template in a way that appeared virtually impossible for a
new user unfamiliar with the situation.
See from the mediawiki comparison tool:
- 2007-11-20 22:47:59 *by
**Crum375*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Crum375>(
hist<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Crum375&action=history>)
(diff<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Crum375&diff=prev&oldid=172794686>)
m User:Crum375 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Crum375> (Reverted
edits by 86.131.88.98<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/86.131.88.98>(
talk <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%20talk:86.131.88.98>) to last
version by Mr Tumnus) *(top)*
- 2007-11-20 22:33:12 *by
**86.131.88.98*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:86.131.88.98>(
hist<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Crum375&action=history>)
(diff<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Crum375&diff=prev&oldid=172791898>)
User:Crum375 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Crum375>
(Undid<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:UNDO>revision 172790564 by Mr
Tumnus <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Mr%20Tumnus> (
talk <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%20talk:Mr%20Tumnus>))
- 2007-11-20 22:32:37 *by
**86.131.88.98*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:86.131.88.98>(
hist<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%20talk:Mr_Tumnus&action=history>)
(diff<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%20talk:Mr_Tumnus&diff=prev&oldid=172791781>)
User talk:Mr Tumnus <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%20talk:Mr_Tumnus>(
→<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%20talk:Mr_Tumnus#Crum375_sockpuppet_of_Slimvirgin>Crum375
sockpuppet of Slimvirgin - new section)
- 2007-11-20 22:30:13 *by **Mr
Tumnus*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mr%20Tumnus>(
hist <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Snake&action=history>) (
diff<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Snake&diff=prev&oldid=172791315>)
Snake <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake>
(Undid<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:UNDO>revision 172791188 by
69.37.40.85<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/69.37.40.85>(
talk <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%20talk:69.37.40.85>))
- 2007-11-20 22:27:39 *by **Mr
Tumnus*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mr%20Tumnus>(
hist<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%20talk:86.131.88.98&action=history>)
(diff<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%20talk:86.131.88.98&diff=prev&oldid=172790840>)
User talk:86.131.88.98<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%20talk:86.131.88.98>(Warning)
*(top)*
- 2007-11-20 22:27:12 *by **Mr
Tumnus*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mr%20Tumnus>(
hist<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%20talk:69.125.253.12&action=history>)
(diff<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%20talk:69.125.253.12&diff=prev&oldid=172790741>)
User talk:69.125.253.12<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%20talk:69.125.253.12>(Warning)
- 2007-11-20 22:26:25 *by **Mr
Tumnus*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mr%20Tumnus>(
hist<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Crum375&action=history>)
(diff<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Crum375&diff=prev&oldid=172790564>)
User:Crum375 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Crum375>
(Undid<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:UNDO>revision 172790134 by
86.131.88.98<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/86.131.88.98>(
talk <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%20talk:86.131.88.98>)) (TUMNUS
DELETES ACCUSATION 0:19 AFTER PRIOR EDIT, ALSO 2:14 AFTER FIRST ADDED)
- 2007-11-20 22:26:06 *by **Mr
Tumnus*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mr%20Tumnus>(
hist <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kutless&action=history>)
(diff<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kutless&diff=prev&oldid=172790513>)
Kutless <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kutless> (Rv) *(top)*
- 2007-11-20 22:25:29 *by **Mr
Tumnus*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mr%20Tumnus>(
hist<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portal:Europe/Intro&action=history>)
(diff<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portal:Europe/Intro&diff=prev&oldid=172790389>)
Portal:Europe/Intro <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Europe/Intro> (
Undid <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:UNDO> revision 172786701 by
69.125.253.12<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/69.125.253.12>(
talk <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%20talk:69.125.253.12>))
- 2007-11-20 22:25:04 *by **Mr
Tumnus*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mr%20Tumnus>(
hist <http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mouse&action=history>) (
diff<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mouse&diff=prev&oldid=172790299>)
Mouse <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse>
(Undid<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:UNDO>revision 172788037 by
69.125.253.12<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/69.125.253.12>(
talk <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%20talk:69.125.253.12>)) (TUMNUS
ARRIVES ONE MINUTE LATER)
- 2007-11-20 22:24:11 *by
**86.131.88.98*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:86.131.88.98>(
hist<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Crum375&action=history>)
(diff<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Crum375&diff=prev&oldid=172790134>)
User:Crum375
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Crum375><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:UNDO>
(SOCK
ACCUSATION ADDED)<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/69.125.253.12><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%20talk:69.125.253.12>
- 2007-11-20 20:38:01 *by
**Crum375*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Crum375>(
hist<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:BDORT&action=history>)
(diff<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:BDORT&diff=prev&oldid=172769465>)
Talk:BDORT <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:BDORT>
(→<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:BDORT#Opening_Sentence>Opening
Sentence - high quality for UNDUE)
- 2007-11-20 20:26:29 *by
**Crum375*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Crum375>(
hist<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:BDORT&action=history>)
(diff<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:BDORT&diff=prev&oldid=172767268>)
Talk:BDORT <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:BDORT>
(→<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:BDORT#Opening_Sentence>Opening
Sentence - re)
- 2007-11-20 20:14:16 *by **Mr
Tumnus*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mr%20Tumnus>(
hist<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%20talk:137.164.143.114&action=history>)
(diff<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%20talk:137.164.143.114&diff=prev&oldid=172764834>)
User talk:137.164.143.114<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%20talk:137.164.143.114>(
→<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User%20talk:137.164.143.114#November_2007>November
2007 - Another
The times here are in hours, minutes and seconds. My question to Lar was
how a new user could find Crum375's talk page to remove a sock template,
although the two had never interacted, within 19 seconds of [his] previous
revert, when the edit to Crum375's talk page had at that point already been
sitting on recent changes for nearly two minutes. Those weren't the only
edits, however; in fact Tumnus arrived the next time within three minutes to
remove a related comment, in that case after two days' absence. Along with
a few other points including Tumnus changing his name and blanking posts of
banned editors, this is what I sent to Lar.
Regarding the other comments, my issue didn't start with Dmcdevit, as you
know, but with your decision to follow me to [[Folke Bernadotte]] amidst our
first interaction, to revert three times in less than thirty minutes before
two friends showed up to protect the page and contribute further reverts,
and before you then decided the next day to report me for a "complex 3RR
violation." Your second arrival, which ultimately involved Dmcdevit, was
icing, although you should recall that did involve multiple editors
chastizing you for your actions (see points two and three here
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/C68-FM-SV/Evidence#Deceptive.2Fbattleground_editing_by_SlimVirgin>in
the current arbitration). My issue was greatly exacerbated when, despite
these remarkable actions (and several others), and despite my complete
failure to respond in kind, you started accusing me of following you -- or
at least you and Jayjg since the former couldn't be supported -- in the
strongest possible terms. This was further worsened when you went on with
additional accusations, attempted to exclude another editor and myself from
a mediation involving Crum375's long-term protection of a page, and when it
later became apparent not just that Crum375 protected pages for you all the
time, but that in fact Crum375 did virtually nothing but follow you around
Wikipedia, often supporting you in absurd fights while presenting as
neutral.
To my own point, I suppose eventually my hope has been that you'd realize
how unjustified all of this has been, how personally offensive it has been,
and the same regarding your approach to various other editors. Similarly,
if Crum375 is a friend, I'd hope they would realize how offensive it has
been for them to pose as a neutral mediator in your various all-out
disputes, at the same time as you've seemed willing to do just about
anything to marginalize those you don't like (even while asking the same
editors to assume your good faith!). Two editors who work together so much
shouldn't be edit warring together, ever, regardless, or for that matter be
so quick to complain if others they've edited with have a view about a
particular article. Perhaps addressing these issues could also be of
benefit.
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