[WikiEN-l] Reflections on the end of the spoiler wars

[Steven Walling]

whoops, I forgot it's a part of Canvassing guidelines already.

On Nov 14, 2007 9:03 PM, Steven Walling <steven.walling at gmail.com> wrote:

> You make your point well. Then, if the object is "figuring out ways of
> isolating idiocy that don't amount to iron fist control." then it seems to
> me that the best way of accoomplishing this is to make forum shopping a firm
> criterion for closure of discussion. Is it still an essay? Why don't we
> propose it as a guideline?
>
>
> On Nov 14, 2007 8:56 PM, Philip Sandifer <snowspinner at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Nov 14, 2007, at 11:37 PM, Steven Walling wrote:
> >
> > > If you
> > > don't support open discourse for everyone, you don't support it at
> > > all.
> >
> > You're mostly just restating the basic paradox here. Yes - we want an
> > open discourse-based project. On the other hand, an extended six month
> > saga of forum shopping a doomed cause is not useful - it's counter-
> > productive, engenders bad faith and assumptions thereof, increases
> > wikistress, and sucks time and air away from the business of improving
> > articles.
> >
> > Endless toleration of idiots (where "idiot" is defined as "inability
> > or refusal to contribute desireable content") is not the goal of any
> > productive system, no matter how open the discourse. The trick is
> > figuring out ways of isolating idiocy that don't amount to iron fist
> > control.
> >
> > In the article space we mostly have a system in place to identify POV
> > pushers and other idiots and isolate them through blocks, social
> > censure, and reversion until they get annoyed and leave. Equivalent
> > behaviors in the policy space are far more accepted, and for good
> > reason - we have our basic content principles well spelled out (NPOV,
> > Verifiability, etc). It's a lot harder to reduce the policy space to
> > first premises and then isolate those who do not adhere to them.
> >
> > This is, incidentally, why inclusionism/deletionism debates never end
> > and often get so contentious - we don't have the same well-defined
> > definition of what a useful contributor is on deletion debates that we
> > do in the article namespace.
> >
> > All of which is to say, I think the problem is rather more complex
> > than people are making it out to be, and has a significant component
> > that persists even after the two obvious statements ("Shoot the
> > idiots" and "open discourse is important") are made.
> >
> > -Phil
> >
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