[WikiEN-l] off-wiki attitude (was Re: BLP, and admin role in overriding community review)

[Gallagher Mark George]

G'day Joe,

> Was this change in public tone and approach to BLP, DRV, et al 
> discussedanywhere beyond this mailing list and on-wiki? Any other 
> maillists, or IRC?
> It seems that suddenly a collection of senior people that work 
> together are
> all on a unified page on something which is going to be very 
> contententiousto many individuals. If this is the New Way, would 
> one of you be so good as
> to specifically modify WP:BLP with these changes, to see if the 
> communityaccepts them?

Wikis in general, including MediaWiki in particular, are very poor for conducting discussions.  It's 
inevitable, and desirable, that there will be discussion --- even discussion between "a collection of senior 
people" --- about Wikipedia in other areas, be it mailing lists, IRC, Wikimania, or around the kitchen table 
after work.

I am unable or unwilling to access many of the fora used for off-wiki discussion --- for example, I have no 
wish to join foundation-L (unwilling); I am not allowed to join the arbcom list (unable).  Likewise, you are 
not willing or able to join IRC --- or many of the other areas where off-wiki discussion occurs.  This does 
not cause me any stress.  It seems to stress you a great deal.

If something is discussed and/or agreed to in a forum that doesn't involve me, I say: fine.  Now show me 
your reasoning and explain to me why I should accept what you said elsewhere.  I don't say: You can't do 
that!  We should shut down that mailing list/channel/kitchen table!

Off-wiki discussion is a Good Thing.  You're worried about being locked out, and that's a legitimate 
concern.  But the solution isn't to complain about off-wiki discussion, as you have repeatedly and shrilly 
done.  The solution is for those who engage in off-wiki discussion to ensure, if they want to be taken 
seriously, that they explain themselves just as well on-wiki as they did off.

Compare: "I have made Decision X after discussion on IRC"
               "I have made Decision X because I believe it is the Right Thing to do.  As discussed on IRC, 
               this is the Right Thing because of Y, Z, A, and B."

Unexplained decisions are a problem whether accompanied by oogedy-boogedy about off-wiki discussion 
or not.  Let's focus on the *real* problem and stop deriding useful means of communication.


Cheers,

-- 
[[User:MarkGallagher]]