[WikiEN-l] Coordination on Secret/private lists

[Jimmy Wales]

I am glad to see Alec laying his cards on the table here.

Alec Conroy wrote:
> On 12/5/07, jayjg <jayjg99 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> What's boring are continuing snide insinuations. Why [doesn't]
>> anyone else who insists that the Cyberstalking list was used to
>> co-ordinate !!'s block say straight out that they think Matt and Guy
>> and Slim are lying, if that's what they think, rather than using
>> weaselly innuendo to try to press their point?
> 
> I know this horse is sorta dead, but since peopel are still engaging
> in the post-mortem, I thought I should chime in.
> 
> First of all, Matt and Guy and Slim can't lie about something they
> can't possibly have known.  The truth is, they have no clue whether
> the list was used to coordiante or not.  Durova posted to the list
> about !! to the list--  what responses she got back through email,
> only Durova and her sleuths know.   People can say "I didn't see any
> full-formed coordination", but they can't actually know there was no
> such coordination.

So we now have established that the list was not secret and was not used 
directly to coordinate the !! block.  So Alec shifts gears with a new 
allegation: maybe people responded *privately* to Durova's post with 
support.

Note well, this is not an argument against ad hoc side mailing lists, 
this is an argument against mailing lists, period.  Actually, it is an 
argument against anyone posting anything anywhere, public or private, 
since who knows, people might respond privately by email.

> Secondly, there's no need to fixate just on the !! issue.  The list
> had been running long before !!, and it was "high volume".   It
> certainly seems that the Cyberstalking and the Investigations lists
> existed to cooridinate SOMETHING.   What exactly were they
> coordinating, who knws-- but it's obvious  people on it were talking
> about wikipedia, they weren't  swapping recipes, running a support
> group, or investigating the disappearance of Amelia Earhart.

Uh, Alec, I think this has been explained to you multiple times now.

The list was an outgrowth of an ad hoc mailing list to discuss the 
complex and painful issue of people being cyberstalked as a result of 
their participation on Wikipedia.

> But obviously, there was some sort of coordination, and there was SOME
>  reason that even the mere EXISTENCE of the lists were being kept
> secret-- rather than just keeping hte contents of the list private.

The existence of the lists was never a secret.

> *  Miltopias block was almost certainly coordinated on the list--
> Durova strongly implies it, and in fact Durova seems to practically
> gloat that the coordination over that went undiscovered.

As the blocking admin, I can tell you with absolute certainty that the 
Miltopia block was not "coordinated" on the list.  I have no idea what 
that would even mean in this context.

> "We just wanted a private place to share our feelings" isn't going to
> assauge the community's fear that the list was used to coordinate
> something, somewhere, somehow.

I think it makes sense to the community that some people have been badly 
hurt, to the point that the police have had to be called.  That may mean 
nothing to you, but you do not speak for the entire community here.

--Jimbo