[WikiEN-l] Religion and Politics in India (was: Proof of ignorance)

[Poor, Edmund W]

Let's change the thread name, so it sounds less like a personal attack.

Ed Poor
Mailing List Admin
English Wikipedia

-----Original Message-----
From: libertarian [mailto:libertarian at myway.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 10:51 PM
To: wikien-l at Wikipedia.org
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Proof of Mark Richards' ignorance



> Libertarian, if you wish to take this beyond whatever talk pages
> you and Mark have been arguing on previously, please give us some 
> context. Or, preferably, don't - stick to the normal Wikipedia 
> dispute resolution 
> process.

Fair enough, I'll give you the context. But before that, I want you to
know that I went through the normal dispute resolution process and
submitted a list of factual errors in the existing documents and
corrections along with detailed documentation.

The counter-party did not even bother to make such a submission and this
was then buried without any resolution. I want to know why India and
Hindus should be judged by radical Communists who indulge in propaganda
and why such propaganda should be presented as FACT, 
while Christian nations are judged by people who owe allegience to 
Christianity and are usually from the mainstream White society.

The whole issue was about a firebombing of a train by Muslims (doing
their regular religious duty) which sparked riots in India leaving
hundreds of people dead (Hindus as well as Muslims, but naturally, the
number of Muslims who were killed was more. This is due to the fact that
Hindus outnumber Muslims.) Like any other Hindu-Muslim riot, the Muslims
start it and the number of dead Muslims outnumber the number of dead
Hindus.

The firebombing was twisted by Communists (both in India as well as by
those posting on Wikipedia) as a sudden fight which erupted because the
Hindu passengers (it turned out that many of them were women and babies)
had provoked the Muslims.

Now, anyone with even a little analytical ability will realize that 2000
strong mob doesn't collect because two people squabbled over the price
of tea. Secondly, how did they get cans of petrol and diesel which was
enough to burn down a train? All of this happened within 3 minutes for
which the train stopped at the station.

Coming to Wikipedia, the claim about some passenger squabbling over the
price of tea and then dragging a Muslim girl (unidentified of course)
into the train was circulated on the internet and that chain mail gave
the name of a journalist as the eyewitness who saw the incident. It also
had his phone number.

Some journalists who were superior phoned up the 'eyewitness' for
confirmation and were taken aback when the 'eyewitness' said that some
enemy of his had sent out that mail and he felt harassed by all the
calls and that he had actually reported the opposite! I posted the
articles which appeared in mainstream media pointing this out. 
Yet, the mediators after offering to mediate and making me go through
due diligence collecting evidence and carefully documenting them, chose
to pretend that I did not exist. Perhaps they were lazy. Perhaps their
ignorance was being exploited.

The second point was a report by a self-appointed "Human Rights" group
which was a Communist organization. The key person was a person named VR
Krishna Iyer, who was a Communist and IS a Communist. I was hounded out
of Wikipedia for saying this. The 'expert' from India was a college kid
who knew nothing about Indian politics and was spewing Communist
rhetoric. That chap was bewildered when I pointed out that VR Krishna
Iyer was a Communist and the whole report was a string of allegations
against unnamed people using usual Communist rhetoric. He needed to do a
Google search to see if it was true. This is amazing because VRKI being
a Communist is similar to Bill Clinton being a Democrat. There is no
dispute here. Any Indian with half-baked knowledge will laugh at you if
you try to dispute this claim.

All my points were obfuscated with the word alleged. Take my advice, if
you are going to say that Bill Clinton is an alleged Democrat, it is
Wikipedia's reputation which will suffer. All Communist propaganda has
been presented as fact. 

If VRKI's judgement of India is gospel, so too should be his judgement
of USA. I think it is fair. Why should you be judged by a different
yardstick? Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

I hope you know what Mumbai Resistance is about. It is a violent
Communist organization which had its meeting in Mumbai while the World
Social Forum meet was going on. Check out
http://www.mumbairesistance.org/

That site also has a message from VR Krishna Iyer where he extends his
support for this violent organization.
http://www.mumbairesistance.org/Messages/justice%20vrkrishna.htm

Again, I went through the regular mediation process. I was the one who
trusted the mediators. I was the one who took the trouble of explaining
the situation. I was the one who documented my claims. I would prefer
that this be sorted out in the open with trustworthy people, not people
like Angela or Brian Corr who played a game of deception.

Again, I am willing to agree to the Communists' views of India as the
one which should be put out on Wikipedia provided you agree to have
their views of "imperialist" USA as mainstream views. We'll use "facts"
about USA from the same crowd which wrote up that report. Fair enough?

-libertarian

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