[WikiEN-l] Re: thank you

[Poor, Edmund W]

Lir,
 
Stop it. Stop acting like, "No matter how unpleasant I make myself to
the community, they have no right to get rid of me unless they prove to
_my_ satisfaction that I have broken a rule which applies equally to
everyone." Just stop doing this, or you'll never get back in the door.
 
I offered to help you, a year or so ago, when you got kicked out the
_first_ time. The issue hasn't changed: You can't be a member of this
community on _your_ terms. Nobody can, and ironically, this is a rule
that applies equally to everyone: if you want people to like you, start
by being likable.
 
If you want to be tolerated, you could be more tolerant. Anthere and
others have devoted a lot of time to helping you. They deserve genuine
thanks, not a sarcastic slap in the face.
 
If you want people to listen to you, try listening to _them_. Look for
at least one thing in each communication that you can agree with or
appreciate, and comment on _that_ instead of being so goldarn negative
all the time. I mean, really! :-(
 
If you want to be trusted, make every effort to _earn_ that trust.
There's a reason that a wealthy atheist (named Jimbo) trusted a "poor"
religious "nut" (named Ed) with awesome powers. The more responsibility
one shows, the more power others are willing to give them.  
 
You could turn this whole thing around in a heartbeat. The ball's in
your court. Put community ahead of self, and you'll hit a home run! :-)
 
Uncle Ed
Member of mediation committee
Bureaucrat
... and Developer Emeritus
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Anthere [mailto:anthere9 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, July 05, 2004 6:13 AM
To: C A S [name omitted for privacy reasons]
Cc: wikien-l at wikimedia.org
Subject: [WikiEN-l] Re: thank you



	Lir,
	 
	I think that unfortunately, whatever the rules you might breach
or not breach, and whatever Jimbo wish that you be plainly welcome back
as a member with full editing rights, it is unfortunately a fact that
many members of the english wikipedia are not happy with you being a
participant. And admittedly, your attitude just does not help convince
them that the benefits you are bringing Wikipedia balance the drawbacks.
It might help that you adopt a more positive stance, perhaps not always
criticizing so much volunteers for being either too quick or too slow,
or too rude or too polite, or too bold or not daring enough. May I
suggest that if you want to be treated in an appropriate manner, you
might perhaps think carefully about what is appropriate and what is not.
	 
	Your issue has everything to do with sockpuppets, as Guanaco
thought you were these sockpuppets (perhaps guidelines indicating how
the community decides that this one is a sock puppet or is not...though
we know nothing can really be proved), and as Guanaco also thought
sockpuppets were illegal (so perhaps guidelines indicating what is
illegal for a sock puppet to do, and what is legal would be good).
	 
	Policies such as this one should be designed at community level.
This is *not* the board job to do so *at all*. There must be a
discussion on the wiki itself, with wikipedians, and I guess Sannse can
help on this. Or whoever feels that sock puppet management has become a
very painful matter now. Also, both Sannse and Ed are members of the MC,
and Ed proposed to help you. This was your choice not to accept the
proposal.
	 
	I will add perhaps boldly that, regardless to rules and
policies, belonging to a community is essentially being "accepted" by
it, with defaults and qualities. It is more a feeling, a perception. But
qualities should always compensate defaults. Most of the time, there is
no need of crossing the name of a person on the membership list. Banning
is really the final indication that a community reject someone, and has
to do so officially, but before that happens, a few signs are meaningful
and may indicate to a "member" that he might consider just moving on.


	C A S [name omitted for privacy reasons] <a[name omitted for privacy reasons]@msn.com> wrote:

		*would like you to cool down and allow time for things
to proceed.
		**As if, you've had months and months to lift your
fingers -- you never intend to do anything. 
		
		*This week end, we had a meeting in Paris, so
essentially, Angela, Jimbo and I were unavailable.
		**If you are too busy, resign from the board/mediation
committee and let someone else do the job. 

		*Was that it had been a not very good move from Guanaco,
misunderstanding from his part, but mostly unclear policy with regards
to sock puppets.
		**It has nothing to do with sock puppets; no evidence
has been shown that Yuna or YES was a sockpuppet of mine. Regardless of
the rules regarding sockpuppets, I don't have one!
		 
		*Sannse agreed to try to work with others on this
policy, so that things are clearer. I thought this was essentially your
request
		**I don't want "Sannse" working with others -- I want
the Wikimedia board to get off its ass and start demanding sysops
treating regular users in an appropriate manner. 
		 
		*I have no idea of the last events, and frankly, right
now, really no time to look at it.
		**Resign Anthere, resign -- nothing is getting done
because you don't have time, and nobody else can do it because you are
hogging too many important positions. 
		 
		*I suggest that you explain what happened to the
arbitration committee if you really feel that it is important.
		**The Arbitration Committee refuses to speak with me. 
		 
		 

	
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