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<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Lir,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Stop
it. Stop acting like, "No matter how unpleasant I make myself to the community,
they have no right to get rid of me unless they prove to _my_ satisfaction that
I have broken a rule which applies equally to everyone." Just stop doing this,
or you'll never get back in the door.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
offered to help you, a year or so ago, when you got kicked out the _first_ time.
The issue hasn't changed: You can't be a member of this community on _your_
terms. Nobody can, and ironically, this is a rule that applies equally to
everyone: if you want people to like you, start by being
likable.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If you
want to be tolerated, you could be more tolerant. Anthere and others have
devoted a lot of time to helping you. They deserve genuine thanks, not a
sarcastic slap in the face.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If you
want people to listen to you, try listening to _them_. Look for at least one
thing in each communication that you can agree with or appreciate, and comment
on _that_ instead of being so goldarn negative all the time. I mean, really!
:-(</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If you
want to be trusted, make every effort to _earn_ that trust. There's a reason
that a wealthy atheist (named Jimbo) trusted a "poor" religious "nut" (named Ed)
with awesome powers. The more responsibility one shows, the more power others
are willing to give them. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>You
could turn this whole thing around in a heartbeat. The ball's in your court. Put
community ahead of self, and you'll hit a home run! :-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Uncle
Ed</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Member
of mediation committee</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Bureaucrat</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>...
and Developer Emeritus</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=844033716-06072004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Anthere
[mailto:anthere9@yahoo.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 05, 2004 6:13
AM<BR><B>To:</B> C A S [name omitted for privacy reasons]<BR><B>Cc:</B>
wikien-l@wikimedia.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [WikiEN-l] Re: thank
you<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
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<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Lir,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>I think that unfortunately, whatever the rules
you might breach or not breach, and whatever Jimbo wish that you be plainly
welcome back as a member with full editing rights, it is unfortunately a fact
that many members of the english wikipedia are not happy with you being a
participant. And admittedly, your attitude just does not help convince
them that the benefits you are bringing Wikipedia balance the
drawbacks. It might help that you adopt a more positive stance, perhaps not
always criticizing so much volunteers for being either too quick or too slow,
or too rude or too polite, or too bold or not daring enough. May I suggest
that if you want to be treated in an appropriate manner, you might perhaps
think carefully about what is appropriate and what is not.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Your issue has everything to do with
sockpuppets, as Guanaco thought you were these sockpuppets (perhaps guidelines
indicating how the community decides that this one is a sock puppet or is
not...though we know nothing can really be proved), and as Guanaco also
thought sockpuppets were illegal (so perhaps guidelines indicating what is
illegal for a sock puppet to do, and what is legal would be
good).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Policies such as this one should be designed
at community level. This is *not* the board job to do so *at all*. There must
be a discussion on the wiki itself, with wikipedians, and I guess Sannse can
help on this. Or whoever feels that sock puppet management has become a very
painful matter now. Also, both Sannse and Ed are members of the MC, and Ed
proposed to help you. This was your choice not to accept the
proposal.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>I will add perhaps boldly that, regardless to
rules and policies, belonging to a community is essentially being "accepted"
by it, with defaults and qualities. It is more a feeling, a perception. But
qualities should always compensate defaults. Most of the time, there is no
need of crossing the name of a person on the membership list. Banning is
really the final indication that a community reject someone, and has to do so
officially, but before that happens, a few signs are meaningful and may
indicate to a "member" that he might consider just moving
on.</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>C A S [name omitted for privacy reasons] <a[name omitted for privacy reasons]@msn.com></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV>*would like you to cool down and allow time for things to
proceed.</DIV>
<DIV>**As if, you've had months and months to lift your fingers -- you never
intend to do anything. <BR><BR>*This week end, we had a meeting in Paris, so
essentially, Angela, Jimbo and I were unavailable.</DIV>
<DIV>**If you are too busy, resign from the board/mediation committee and
let someone else do the job. </DIV>
<DIV><BR>*Was that it had been a not very good move from Guanaco,
misunderstanding from his part, but mostly unclear policy with regards to
sock puppets.</DIV>
<DIV>**It has nothing to do with sock puppets; no evidence has been shown
that Yuna or YES was a sockpuppet of mine. Regardless of the rules regarding
sockpuppets, I don't have one!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>*Sannse agreed to try to work with others on this policy, so that
things are clearer. I thought this was essentially your request</DIV>
<DIV>**I don't want "Sannse" working with others -- I want the Wikimedia
board to get off its ass and start demanding sysops treating regular users
in an appropriate manner. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>*I have no idea of the last events, and frankly, right now, really no
time to look at it.</DIV>
<DIV>**Resign Anthere, resign -- nothing is getting done because you don't
have time, and nobody else can do it because you are hogging too many
important positions. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>*I suggest that you explain what happened to the arbitration committee
if you really feel that it is important.</DIV>
<DIV>**The Arbitration Committee refuses to speak with me. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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