[Labs-admin] Fwd: Re: Servers with GPUs

[Yuvi Panda]

Do we have the human bandwidth to commit to doing this as a team? GPUs are
fickle beasts.

On Feb 23, 2017 5:31 AM, "Andrew Bogott" <abogott at wikimedia.org> wrote:

> FYI, here is a thing that reading/ores people are daydreaming about.  I've
> made it clear that bare-metal-in-labs is a nonstarter; having special
> hardware with special VM types is not necessarily all that much work.  I
> bet a labvirt with a GPU will be super expensive though, and I don't know a
> damn thing about how GPU resource-contention would be handled.
>
> -A
>
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> From: Adam Baso <abaso at wikimedia.org> <abaso at wikimedia.org>
> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2017 10:56:30 -0600
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> Subject: Re: Servers with GPUs
> To: Andrew Bogott <abogott at wikimedia.org> <abogott at wikimedia.org>
> Cc: Aaron Halfaker <ahalfaker at wikimedia.org> <ahalfaker at wikimedia.org>,
> Dario Taraborelli <dtaraborelli at wikimedia.org>
> <dtaraborelli at wikimedia.org>, Ellery Wulczyn <ewulczyn at wikimedia.org>
> <ewulczyn at wikimedia.org>, Andrew Otto <otto at wikimedia.org>
> <otto at wikimedia.org>, Corey Floyd <cfloyd at wikimedia.org>
> <cfloyd at wikimedia.org>, Andrew Otto <acotto at gmail.com> <acotto at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f403045cf1523e23fe05492163db
>
> I feel comfortable saying we want one of these options. I'm trying to
> gchat Ryan Lane to see if has insight on the Nova support. I just realized
> when I checked action=history he was one of the editors of
> HeterogeneousGpuAcceleratorSupport
> <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/HeterogeneousGpuAcceleratorSupport>!
>
> -Adam
>
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Andrew Bogott <abogott at wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/21/17 1:36 PM, Adam Baso wrote:
>>
>> I think either that, or if it's easier, OpenStack-provisioned physical
>> servers. Do you think the latter is doable?
>>
>> It's possible, although the last time we visited that issue we swiftly
>> determined that even though people were asking for it no one actually
>> wanted it.  The conclusion from that process is at
>> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Labs_labs_labs/Bare_Metal
>>
>> If GPU instance support is in nova and actually maintained, that might be
>> worth a try.
>>
>> -A
>>
>>
>>
>> I gather the former would require different, if not deeper analysis (cf.
>> HeterogeneousGpuAcceleratorSupport
>> <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/HeterogeneousGpuAcceleratorSupport>).
>>
>> -Adam
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 12:08 PM, Andrew Bogott <abogott at wikimedia.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Can y'all tell me a bit more about how this would relate to labs?  Is
>>> the idea that you want an option to create VMs with virtualized GPU
>>> hardware?  Or... something else?  (I'm not immediately clear on how that
>>> would work, but I'm largely ignorant on the subject.)
>>>
>>> -A
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/21/17 12:02 PM, Aaron Halfaker wrote:
>>>
>>> +9000 :D. (also + Andrew bogott)
>>>
>>> Would love to have this kind of resource in labs and openly available.
>>> I'm personally stoked to start experimenting but not ready to invest in
>>> production GPUs yet.  A few of my external collaborators have asked about
>>> GPU resources in labs too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 21, 2017 11:52, "Adam Baso" <abaso at wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Following up on this here current thread, what do you all think about
>>>> doing the GPU acceleration in Labs first?
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if it was halfak or marktraceur who suggested it first
>>>> (although Aaron's brought it up a couple times now), but it's
>>>> *probably* less up front architectural overhead to start out with,
>>>> even if in the future we'd have a strict requirement on HA (Q1 FY 18-19 at
>>>> the very latest under current guess). As Aaron has rightly noted doing this
>>>> in Labs also  lets us learn plus give community members greater access to
>>>> innovate early, too. The primary downside of not getting this in production
>>>> with HA up front is if funding dries up for FY 18-19 we're stuck or pegged
>>>> to certain workflows later on. But maybe it's not worth worrying about that
>>>> too much.
>>>>
>>>> I think one very much open question, though, would be if it's possible
>>>> to have a machine with the GPU card installed and specifically assigned in
>>>> Labs. Does anyone know if that's actually possible?
>>>>
>>>> -Adam
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 4:56 PM, Aaron Halfaker <
>>>> ahalfaker at wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> +1 for looping me in on that thread & discussion.   I'd like to loop
>>>>> in someone from Labs (probably andrebogott) about purchasing GPUs for Labs
>>>>> so that we can (1) run prediction models in Beta and (2) empower our
>>>>> volunteers/external researchers to experiment with us.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Aaron
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 12:11 PM, Adam Baso <abaso at wikimedia.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> +Corey
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Adam Baso <abaso at wikimedia.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have a need for push notification servers already, so I've opened
>>>>>>> a thread with Mark and Faidon about getting those servers and putting in
>>>>>>> the Nvidia-recommended cards for TensorFlow (ostensibly for machine
>>>>>>> vision), for the sake of simplifying assumptions about hardware. I'm
>>>>>>> awaiting their feedback about whether we actually need to split the
>>>>>>> servers. If we *do* need to split the servers for separate
>>>>>>> purposes, then I think that means we'd push back the online computer vision
>>>>>>> servers and GPUs purchase to early Q4 FY 17-18 rather than just getting it
>>>>>>> done Q1 FY 17-18 - which is when we need to be moving aggressively on push
>>>>>>> notification so it would be prudent to just get it done in one fell swoop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Aaron, I know last week you had said you'd be *open* to
>>>>>>> collaborating on this...and I was quite noncommittal!...But I appreciate
>>>>>>> your saying you'd *like* to collaborate here. Would you like if I
>>>>>>> loop you on that thread with Mark and Faidon? *Any others who
>>>>>>> should / would like to join that thread?* Just be prepared for the
>>>>>>> thread to be covering two separate use cases - one on cross-platform push
>>>>>>> notification and one on basic machine vision.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Adam
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Aaron Halfaker <
>>>>>>> ahalfaker at wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK so I think we'll want to (1) get a GPU in the stat boxes ASAP
>>>>>>>> and (2) decide whether we want to plan GPU resources in Prod for FY2018 or
>>>>>>>> FY2019.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For (2), I don't think my team's current plans will bring us to
>>>>>>>> using the GPU in production in the next year, but I suspect that Reading
>>>>>>>> may want to push some work re. image processing in that time.  If that's
>>>>>>>> the case, I want my team to be able to collaborate and support getting that
>>>>>>>> deployed in prod.  To do this well, I want GPU resources in Wikimedia Labs
>>>>>>>> too.  That sounds like a whole other can of worms.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Ellery Wulczyn <
>>>>>>>> ewulczyn at wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Having GPUs for training should be sufficient for now, although if
>>>>>>>>> we end up getting a ton of use, using GPUs could be a lot faster and
>>>>>>>>> probably cheaper than provisioning the same compute amount of CPUs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Aaron Halfaker <
>>>>>>>>> ahalfaker at wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If we only need the GPU for model training, it'll be OK to use
>>>>>>>>>> one stat box.  If we need the GPU for scoring/predictions, we'll need a
>>>>>>>>>> whole new hardware plan.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:06 PM, Andrew Otto <otto at wikimedia.org>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hm, a good rule of thumb is: If it can be offline or not running
>>>>>>>>>>> and not affect end users, then it is probably fine to use a stat box.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 1:56 PM, Adam Baso <abaso at wikimedia.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Got it - I take that to be the case whether it's batched
>>>>>>>>>>>> operation (e.g., on millions of files) or it's more of an in-the-user-flow
>>>>>>>>>>>> sort of thing. Is that right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 10:55 AM, Andrew Otto <acotto at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’d say, if you are going to just to analytics type  stuff,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> then the single stat machine will do.  If you want to depend on a GPU for a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> end-user production thing, then you’ll have to work with ops to find
>>>>>>>>>>>>> another place to run it. :/ :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Aaron Halfaker <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahalfaker at wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ellery, will we need the GPUs in order to use a NN or will we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only need it for training models?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Adam Baso <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> abaso at wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I envision two primary uses:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Large scale batch offline processing of existing media
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assets so that the material is ready for curatorial flows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) As part of an end user flow where multiple concurrent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> users are uploading media and verifying and adding structured data on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fly as part of production use.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can both of these be done on stats machines?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ought we have GPU acceleration in two machines instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one machine?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 8:15 AM, Andrew Otto <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otto at wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh ya!  If you have a use case for this too, all the better!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you need it for analytics type work?  Or do you need it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to process stuff for a production feature?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 9:10 AM, Aaron Halfaker <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ahalfaker at wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Adam,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> + a bunch of CCs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Last I heard, Dario thought we might be able to cover the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cost with Research budget.  Otto thought that we could get a top of line
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GPU and load it into an analytics machine some time in Q4 of this year.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ellery was planning to use 3rd party GPU processing services until it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ready.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T148843
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Aaron
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 6:01 PM, Adam Baso <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> abaso at wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aaron, okay if I schedule a 20 minute meeting with you to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talk servers with GPUs?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Broadly, I'm trying to figure out what server CapEx I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to ask of Mark (e.g., for TensorFlow object detection in anticipation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of work later in FY 17-18 / earlier FY 18-19). I had asked him the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> day about when he needs requests for next FY, and he basically said the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sooner the better.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Adam
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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