[Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

[Theo10011]

I don't think you've interacted on these mailing lists or on-wiki a lot,
have you?

As far as I can see, barring maybe my last line in the previous reply, I
was civil thorough-out, maybe sarcastic or acerbically restrained. You
don't know me, but I assure you this was not me attempting to be rude.

Second, as far as tones go on a written medium, I would say I dislike
your authoritative tone generally, especially when you dismiss my or
other's arguments. That is not helpful either.

You are however, more than free to ignore me to avoid any further acrimony.

Theo

On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 4:44 AM, Achal Prabhala <aprabhala at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Theo, I find your tone needlessly rude - do you really think this is the
> best way to communicate?
>
> It makes it very difficult to have a useful conversation.
>
> Best wishes,
> Achal
>
> On 11 November 2011 18:07, Theo10011 <de10011 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, we disagreed on a couple of things during the filter discussion on
> > this very list, I'm sure you can look it up.
> >
> > Along with the local discussions, your thoughts on the strategy plan, and
> > movement roles, I wasn't there at the time to disagree so I suppose you
> > have no idea. You are more than welcome to bring any of this up on
> > Internal-l however, I would be happy to go into much more detail for your
> > elucidation.
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 3:26 AM, Achal Prabhala <aprabhala at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Theo
> > >
> > > On 11 November 2011 14:10, Theo10011 <de10011 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ohai Achal
> > > >
> > > > As usual, I disagree.
> > >
> > >
> > > ??
> > >
> > > I didn't realise we disagree frequently...you must fill me in off list
> :)
> > >
> > >
> > > > I am a bit more informed of the current situation
> > > > than most people, maybe not as much as the current WMF advisory board
> > > > member but who knows.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Theo, this isn't a competition. I value your perspective, as do several
> > > other people.
> > >
> >
> > Never said it is.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > My opinion on this is from a regular community member before much of
> > the
> > > > community in other cities was active. I am not affiliated with the
> > > chapter
> > > > or the India operations.
> > > >
> > > > Honestly, from my proximity, and I have been in close proximity for a
> > > while
> > > > to both entities, there is some tension and a sense of antagonism on
> a
> > > lot
> > > > of issues. The fact they can't and usually don't co-ordinate before,
> > only
> > > > heightens the issue.
> > > >
> > >
> > > While I value your perspective on this issue, I think it would be also
> > > helpful to hear from people who have a direct relationship with the
> > > chapter, and from people who are in a formal/semi-formal community
> > grouping
> > > who've interacted with the chapter and Foundation in India. I don't
> > > disagree with you or dispute what you say; I just think that there are
> > many
> > > others who are in a better position to speak to this.
> > >
> >
> > So by implication, you mean I have no direct relationship with the
> chapter
> > and India operations. I don't think I ever stopped being active on the
> > local mailing lists or the conference organizing committee to be
> considered
> > not-direct, however, I can't say the same for you or others. I can go
> into
> > the specifics of my involvement with the foundation in India, with things
> > like the office, all the India-operation pages on Meta, the regular IRC
> > meetings I moderated as well as my work for the chapter like customizing
> > the chapter wiki, Wikiconference pages, general outreach etc.. Again, I'm
> > not sure if my work qualifies me to comment or be considered direct,
> which
> > you seem to be entitled to judge.
> >
> > I find it odd since you are dismissing Anirudh for being in the chapter
> and
> > not in the country, and then me for being in the country and not on the
> > chapter or in proximity. You suggested asking the organizers in your last
> > mail, last I checked I was one of them. Pranav also responded but he also
> > happens to be on a "fellowship"/grant, I'm not.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > As for solicitation and being open for the famed India education
> > > program, I
> > > > recall mentioning this to Hisham when he first brought it up, weeks
> > after
> > > > he was hired. My opinion at the time, and now is, he did it in the
> > wrong
> > > > city, the wrong colleges and with the wrong people. I still stand by
> my
> > > > opinion.
> > > >
> > > > You brought up Anirudh's physical presence as affecting his judgement
> > > about
> > > > the chapter.
> > >
> > >
> > > Actually no.
> > >
> > > Anirudh is not speaking for the chapter, and clearly said he is
> speaking
> > > for himself. I respect that. I'm simply reiterating that as he has been
> > in
> > > Cambodia the last year or so, he hasn't attended chapter meetings, the
> > AGM,
> > > or participated in any of the chapter events (physically) - which I,
> and
> > > several other people based here, have. Anirudh is a long standing and
> > > dedicated Wikipedian who has every right to an opinion; I'm merely
> > pointing
> > > out that living in the country whose Wikimedia chapter you are a board
> > > member of is likely to provide more opportunities to do things for the
> > > chapter and not make it "redundant".
> > >
> > >
> > First you say he's not speaking for the chapter, only himself, which you
> > respect then you proceed to make an argument how he is unfit to speak for
> > the chapter? I'm not sure how someone's physical presence or attending
> > certain meetings relates to their effectiveness on the board, certainly
> > their personal opinion. I pointed out there are several chapters with
> > little or no restrictions to its board members being resident or present
> in
> > the country, again, you are more than free to check. I also don't
> > understand the point of quoting redundant, are those quotes intended to
> be
> > ironic?
> >
> > I'm not sure how his physical presence is related to this, I would go so
> > far as to say, it's his personal business. One that you don't exactly
> have
> > a position to question, just as much as someone else does to question
> > yours, helping chapters and communities in two continents. Can someone
> ask
> > you to stop representing India as the advisory board member when you
> > represent South Africa or vice-versa, after missing a couple of meetings?
> > Last I checked the board of a chapter was a non-paid volunteer position.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > I would like to point out that the India offices are located
> > > > in Delhi, the foundation offices in San Francisco, neither of those
> put
> > > you
> > > > in a better position to comment than Anirudh. Many chapters and you
> can
> > > > check if you like, have board members who are not resident or are
> > > > temporarily resident outside a country. It is usually a chapter's
> > > decision,
> > > > if they have objections or not.
> > > >
> > > > As for the Media getting it wrong, well, it's sad you can't correct
> > > > everyone on what the "Movement" is or where it should be headed.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I'm not entirely sure if you're being sarcastic here, Theo, but
> assuming
> > > good faith, I'll assume that you mean (like Sue pointed out) that the
> > media
> > > does tend to confuse terms that sound and look similar.
> > >
> >
> > I was indeed being sarcastic. (Someone call [[WP:OMGcom]] )
> >
> >
> > Theo
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>