[Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia India Program Trust

Fri Nov 11 19:12:00 UTC 2011

Barry, answers will be in line (as a side notice: I will start love when
someone says something bad about WMF if that is the only way that we can
actually see they posting mails).

*So there are some technical issues that we were dealing with regarding the
> funding of the conference that did not enable it to be a grant.
> *

So, I helped AroundTheGlobe to write the grant, I'm in GAC and thefore I
need to review the grant. I'm also an "honorary" organizer of WCI, so I
actually know a lot about this grant and all the things around it  - and
that is why I mention it.

*Also, I think it is a mistake to say that the conference is the product of
> a WMF initiative or is being controlled by WMF. The conference was and is a
> community initiative with lots of participation.
> *

I don't know where you read in my mail that "the conference is product of a
WMF initiative". I never said that.

*We provided a small stipend to help once it was clear that the logistical
> activities required full time resources.** WMF or the trust as not run
> the conference...we have provided funds to enable it.*

So let me do a little comparison to see if you get my (in fact Anirudh's)
point: If WMIN decide to fund thenselves in 2012 Fundraising, WMF will
provide people to "a small stipend help" them with the full time employee
necessary to run a decent fundraising?

*The grant does actually help to put some building blocks in place such as
> supporting accounting and legal needs.
> *

legal needs don't actually imply a full time lawyer or accountant to WMIN
(I also review this grant and made that exactly
question<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants_talk:WM_IN/Bootstrap_Grant#Operating_Expenses>
)

 *Also, nothing stopping the chapter from building further in the
> future...since the grant process remains open as do communication lines
> with WMF and the community.
> *

Again, no one said they can't. The only thing we said was that WIPT receive
money directly WITHOUT a grant, with give them an advantage.

*There have been three consultant hires in India to date - Hisham,  Nitika
> and Shiju. As mentioned in the past, the team is expected to be 5 people.
> *

Well, I saw at least 4 hiring in the mailing list, so Hisham might have
someone else working for him. I can go look into archives, but I'm pretty
sure Indian operations are bigger than this.
_____
*Béria Lima*
<http://wikimedia.pt/>(351) 925 171 484

*Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
construir esse sonho. <http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos>*

On 11 November 2011 18:58, Barry Newstead <bnewstead em wikimedia.org> wrote:

> A couple of clarifications:
>
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Béria Lima <berialima em gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Disclaimer: I'm not Indian, and I don't know much about the Indian
> > operations, but I needed to answer about something I do know.
> >
> >
> > *Anirudh said: WMIN and WIPT will theoretically compete for funding
> within
> > >> India, much of which will be allocated to WIPT, given that it is
> > >> professionalized (and because we never had a chance) and in WMF's good
> > >> graces.*
> > >>
> > >
> > > *And Bishakha answered: As I understand it, WMIN has received a grant
> > > from WMF, so I can't understand how it "never had a chance".**  *
> > >
> >
> > Ok talking about grants: WMIN has so far 2 grants: a Bootstrap
> > Grant<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:WM_IN/Bootstrap_Grant>and
> > a grant for WCI
> > 2011 <
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:WM_IN/WikiConference_India_2011
> > >(since
> > this
> > grant<
> >
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:WM_IN/Wiki_Community_development_in_India_and_newsletter
> > >state
> > in the begin that is not a chapter grant, despite the fact that has
> > the WMIN in the title). One is for a ver specif thing - a conference -
> who
> > is being leading by 2 "fellows" of WMF.
>
>
> So there are some technical issues that we were dealing with regarding the
> funding of the conference that did not enable it to be a grant. Also, I
> think it is a mistake to say that the conference is the product of a WMF
> initiative or is being controlled by WMF. The conference was and is a
> community initiative with lots of participation. We provided a small
> stipend to help once it was clear that the logistical activities required
> full time resources.  WMF or the trust as not run the conference...we have
> provided funds to enable it.
>
>
> > The second one has nothing to do
> > with professionalization.
>
>
> The grant does actually help to put some building blocks in place such as
> supporting accounting and legal needs. Also, nothing stopping the chapter
> from building further in the future...since the grant process remains open
> as do communication lines with WMF and the community.
>
>
> > So when comes to funding, if they decide to
> > collect funds locally, would be incredible difficult to "fight against"
> the
> > WIPT who is full of employees[1] who are used to work with that for
> years.
> > That was - I believe - Anirudh's point.
> >
>
> As I said, there is no reason to "fight against" anyone.  For example,
> Hisham, Gautam and others all worked to find sponsorships for the
> Wikiconference India. It was a collaborative effort, not a competition.
> Funding should and will flow to program work in various places.  In some
> cases, donors may be more comfortable giving to one org or another...so it
> may actually be an asset to have more than one alternative.
>
> >
> > [1] I'm in WMIN ML and I see a hiring once per month, sometimes more.
> >
>
> There have been three consultant hires in India to date - Hisham,  Nitika
> and Shiju. As mentioned in the past, the team is expected to be 5 people.
>
> _____
> > *Béria Lima*
> > <http://wikimedia.pt/>(351) 925 171 484
> >
> > *Imagine um mundo onde é dada a qualquer pessoa a possibilidade de ter
> > livre acesso ao somatório de todo o conhecimento humano. Ajude-nos a
> > construir esse sonho. <http://wikimedia.pt/Donativos>*
> >
> > Best,
> Barry
>
> >
> > On 11 November 2011 17:34, Bishakha Datta <bishakhadatta em gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Anirudh Bhati <anirudhsbh em gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The initial idea, if I understood it correctly, was to establish
> > another
> > > > non-profit body within India, for a period of three to five years to
> > > > execute specific (and large-scale) programmes.  As of now, the WIPT
> > > > (Wikimedia India Program Office) can pretty much do anything it wants
> > > with
> > > > the Wikimedia brand - partner with institutions, raise money locally,
> > > have
> > > > paid employees and bypass community.
> > >
> > >
> > > From what I have seen, the program office does not behave like a law
> unto
> > > itself, as implied above.
> > >
> > >
> > > > This is what I foresee happening:
> > > >  WMIN will be involved in community-building and small-scale projects
> > > which
> > > > support volunteers and the WIPT will partner with large institutions
> in
> > > > India (who are understandably looking to club with international
> > > > organizations), get a lot of media coverage and acquire the big
> grants
> > > > (since WMIN is not a professional body).
> > >
> > >
> > > WMIN has already had interest from and meetings with other donors,
> > > including pretty big ones in India (I was there at one such in 2010),
> so
> > > why this feeling that WMIN can't acquire the big grants?
> > >
> > >
> > > > WMIN and WIPT will theoretically
> > > > compete for funding within India, much of which will be allocated to
> > > WIPT,
> > > > given that it is professionalized (and because we never had a chance)
> > and
> > > > in WMF's good graces.
> > >
> > >
> > > As I understand it, WMIN has received a grant from WMF, so I can't
> > > understand how it "never had a chance".
> > >
> > >
> > > > This is how WMIN has been made redundant (something
> > > > that I have been saying for a long, long time).
> > > >
> > > > I really don't get this. Given that India is a huge country - with
> more
> > > than 1 billion people - and zillions of opportunities to grow editing
> > > communities in different languages, how can WMIN become or be made
> > > redundant? Also, given that the chapter is less than a year old, and
> has
> > > some new office-bearers, and has announced new plans for moving
> forward,
> > > how is it redundant?
> > >
> > > My personal view is that there is enough work ahead for not just one,
> or
> > > two, but numerous entities, formal and informal, to enter the fray and
> > > actualize this potential. Already, there are many more requests for
> > > collaboration within India than either WMIN or WIPT or both put
> together
> > > can handle.
> > >
> > > Given this huge potential, I don't see why this discussion has to be
> > framed
> > > through the lens of competition or territoriality.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Bishakha
> > > _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> Barry Newstead
> Chief Global Development Officer
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
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>
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