[Foundation-l] Oral Citations project: People are Knowledge
Raul Gutierrez
rg at cablevision.net.mx
Wed Jul 27 15:08:17 UTC 2011
Greetings all,
While I fully concur with the note from Maria Alameda, it opens a much
broader discussion. A topic I have been researching lately.
Those who have (or could) much to say on the topic, for centuries have been
neglected and mostly been unable to research and even have an opinion.
History was originally written by occidental conquerors and continues to be
researched and written by "colonial mentality" researchers, with a
Eurocentric view of the world.
We should remain grateful for those occidental researchers, better that than
nothing, but must be remembered that they only wrote their perception of
what they saw or heard. At some point somebody needs to investigate and
conform the true stature of the original cultures and the
Mother-Civilization that developed in this continent some 10000 years ago.
What if, there was indeed a Mother Civilization, similar to those of
Mesopotamia, India, China, Egypt, etc. And what if this civilization spanned
from Alaska to Panama, and it remains uninvestigated.
For those of you interested on this topic (that read spanish), please visit
www.toltecayotl.org. While it does not pretend to be sole holder of the
truth, possess some very interesting questions and facts, that require
further research.
Raul Gutierrez
A native American of Mexican descent.
-----Original Message-----
From: foundation-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org
[mailto:foundation-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Maria Alameda
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 9:26 AM
To: foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Oral Citations project: People are Knowledge
Hello all
I usually don't comment on mailing lists but a colleague of mine referred me
here. I wanted to comment on the issues related to Native-american research
raised earlier by Ms. Stierch. I found her outlook completely isolated from
the realities.
I would rather attribute her naivety to her limited view of the world as a
fresh graduate. Personally, it reminds me of a somewhat racist outlook
common among predominantly white-american graduates and students. While I
agree there is a need for more research related to Native american culture,
I really can't agree with the implication that Native american culture is as
overlooked as some unknown tribe in New Guinea.
I should be thankful for her enthusiasm but this is ridiculous. I'm happy
for her residency at National museum of American Indian(s) and her thesis or
even efforts to change certain policies on Wikipedia, but none of that is
connected with the much-larger cultural and race issues she's referring to.
While I wish her the best, I would hope she not use her thesis as an excuse
to comment on the realities of those cultural issues. Oral citation is just
one small aspect of a much larger culture she learnt in school.
I might be too sensitive here, but if her comments were to be applied to
african-american culture in the United States coming from a female
white-undergraduate student pursuing her masters, her comments on the plight
and the issues of an entire race would seem rather patronizing. Perhaps, its
just me.
Maria AlamedaM.A, Ph.d (Native American studies)
> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 19:26:16 +0530
> From: whothith at gmail.com
> To: foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Oral Citations project: People are
> Knowledge
>
> Hi Sarah
>
> I just love the narcissism in this email. I really want to comment but
> I don't want to be called a troll again......maybe later.
>
> Much love
>
> Elizabeth
>
> On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Sarah Stierch
<sarah.stierch at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Hi all -
> >
> > I came across a lighter version of this conversation on another
> > Wikimedia list, and felt the need to share my similar thoughts and
> > statements that I made previously.
> >
> > For the past year, I have been examining opportunities involving
> > Indigenous communities of North America and opportunities to utilize
> > Wikipedia and related websites as an affordable, unique and global
> > form of cultural preservation. I have my undergraduate in Native
> > American Studies, and I am obtaining my masters currently. My final
> > paper (not quite a thesis) for graduation will be a strong
> > examination of the opportunities related to Indigenous communities and
opportunities/pros/cons related to Wikipedia.
> > I'm
> > actually presenting on my preliminary observations and concerns at
> > Wikimania, you can learn a bit more here:
> >
> >
> > http://wikimania2011.wikimedia.org/wiki/Submissions/Wikimedia_%26_In
> > digenous_Peoples:_Pros,_Cons_and_Community
> >
> > In the United States, as far as I am aware, I am the only person
> > thinking about this on a higher level. While right now I am quite
> > busy with other matters, come this Fall I will be diving head first
> > into my research. I will be serving as Wikipedian in Residence at
> > the National Museum of the American Indian, where I will be working
> > with staff to examine these concerns. One of our biggest concerns
> > lies with *oral history*. We have had countless conversations about
> > the struggles with "no original research" however, in oral history
> > based societies, we will have a very hard time moving beyond
> > anything else. As stated previously, the majority of content created
> > related to Indigenous communities in North America was often written
> > by (and still
> > is) Anglo anthropologists - some of that data is highly out of date
> > and is still being utilized on Wikipedia as a source today.
I am not certain what higher level you are referring to but I assure you,
you are not the only one thinking about this in the entire country or the
continent.
> >
> > This project, Oral Citations, follows closely with the type of work
> > I am seeking to do. I have been planning to examine Wikipedia
> > (English at first) research policies and consider proposals or
> > changes in relation to serious research and Indigenous communities.
> > Of course, it all comes down to funding, and Native people of North
> > American are often the first overlooked group - it will take a lot
> > of work, years of effort, and a lot of buy in that is needed to be
gathered from inside the community itself.
> >
> > I'm babbling right now, but, this is a very passionate topic for me.
> > I see Wikipedia as providing an affordable and unique way for
> > Indigenous communities to not only learn valuable skills - many of
> > the communities here in America are among the poorest in the world,
> > you'd think you were in a developing country, and kids barely
> > receive beyond an elementary school education - but to have a broad
> > arena to share stories (that the community chooses to share of
> > course), beliefs, cosmologies, and traditions so that they are
> > accessible and *vetted* for researchers and community members around
> > the world.
> >
> > I do hope that some of you are attending Wikimania, I'd like to be
> > able to have a break out session of sorts or an unconference to
> > discuss this topic further. I'm hoping in the next year to have an
> > international conference of sorts that brings together Indigenous
> > people, open source gurus, and Wiki-folks to examine opportunities,
> > processes, and belief systems in regards to opportunities.
> >
> > Feel free to email me directly, again, right now I am unable to move
> > quickly in any major projects due to my already big work load, but,
> > I'm hoping that this will be large part of my career work as an
> > advocate for Native rights, a scholar, and an open source-lover.
> >
> > -Sarah
> > [[w:en:User:SarahStierch]]
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 8:32 AM, CasteloBranco <
> > michelcastelobranco at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > And why does the people who speaks Malayalam, Hindi and Sepedi
> > > need to write in English in order to have those oral citations
published?
> > > English is not as universal as some people think. I guess we need
> > > to find an answer in their own language, so the solution won't be
> > > another barrier. Also, the escope of this project is much more
> > > important for the projects on these languages, and for speakers of
> > > these languages, rather than the English Wikipedia or its readers.
> > >
> > > But that's just me.
> > >
> > > Castelo
> > >
> > >
> > > Em 26/07/2011 16:16, whothis escreveu:
> > > > Looks like an excellent waste of effort.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe the problem of publishing non-publishable oral sources
> > > > occurred
> > to
> > > > someone on the team. Anyway the english wikipedia seems to be
> > > > the appropriate place for your original research. I can't wait
> > > > to read all
> > > about
> > > > it.
> > > >
> > > > I still think a research project in emesis in the global south
> > > > or
> > > something
> > > > would have suited english wikipedia better but that's just me.
> > > >
> > > > Your fan
> > > >
> > > > Elizabeth
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Achal
> > > > Prabhala<aprabhala at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Dear friends,
> > > >>
> > > >> At the beginning of 2011, a group of us began working on a
> > > >> project to explore alternative methods of citation on
> > > >> Wikipedia. We were
> > motivated
> > > >> by the lack of published resources in much of the
> > > >> non-Anglo-European world, and the very real difficulty of
> > > >> citing everyday aspects of
> > lived
> > > >> reality in India and South Africa.
> > > >>
> > > >> We are now at a stage where the project is almost complete, and
> > > >> we'd like to share our work with the broader movement,
> > > >> especially within India and South Africa.
> > > >>
> > > >> There are three languages we worked within: Malayalam, Hindi
> > > >> and
> > Sepedi.
> > > >>
> > > >> The project page documents the process and logistics employed,
> > > >> as well as the findings and results:
> > > >>
> > > >> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Oral_Citations
> > > >>
> > > >> A film made on the project is available here:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:People-are-Knowledge.ogv?with
> > JS=MediaWiki:MwEmbed.js
> > > >> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:People-are-Knowledge.ogv
> > > >> or
> > > >> http://vimeo.com/26469276
> > > >>
> > > >> There have been discussions on oral citations for some time now
> > > >> within the language communities we worked with for the duration
> > > >> of the
> > project.
> > > >> At this stage, we are really interested in *your* feedback,
> > > >> either on this list, or on the Discussion section of the project
page.
> > > >>
> > > >> There are still some things to come, namely:
> > > >>
> > > >> - Updates on events, meetings and discussions held around the
> > > >> project (as they happen)
> > > >> - Updates on articles created in Malayalam, Hindi and Sepedi as
> > > >> a
> > result
> > > >> of the project (as they happen)
> > > >> - English transcripts of the interviews and a full English
> > > >> subtitle
> > > track
> > > >> for further translation (we could use some help here).
> > > >>
> > > >> We would be very grateful to hear your feedback, and begin a
> > > >> broader discussion.
> > > >>
> > > >> Best wishes,
> > > >> Achal
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
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> > > >> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
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> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > GLAMWIKI Partnership Ambassador for the Wikimedia
> > Foundation<http://www.glamwiki.org>
> > Wikipedian-in-Residence, Archives of American
> > Art<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SarahStierch>
> > and
> > Sarah Stierch Consulting
> > *Historical, cultural & artistic research & advising.*
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > http://www.sarahstierch.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
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>
>
>
> --
> Oops, my karma ran over your dogma.
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