[Foundation-l] Status report on logo copyright issues at Swedish Wikipedia

Mariano Cecowski marianocecowski at yahoo.com.ar
Wed Mar 31 17:04:10 UTC 2010

Thank you, David; this clarifies a lot. I just wish you had managed to send this some 50 messages ago. :|


--- El mié 31-mar-10, David Castor <e-post at pastorcastor.se> escribió:

> De: David Castor <e-post at pastorcastor.se>
> Asunto: [Foundation-l] Status report on logo copyright issues at Swedish Wikipedia
> Para: foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> Fecha: miércoles, 31 de marzo de 2010, 13:40
> My name is David Castor and I am
> known on Swedish Wikipedia (and less known
> but somewhat active on Commons and a few foreign language
> Wikipedias) by the
> user name dcastor. I am one of the users who have been
> pushing for a change
> in the way we handle the copyrighted WMF logos. I would
> like to clarify and
> announce a few things on the way the dilemma is presently
> being handled.
> First off, we have not yet made any final decisions; the
> topic is still open
> for discussion at the Swedish village pump. No changes have
> yet been widely
> implemented.
> As a background it is important to know that there is an
> almost unchallenged
> consensus on Swedish Wikipedia not to allow fair use
> imagery, in part
> because the "fair use" concept is not applicable in Swedish
> law, Sweden
> being of course home soil for a majority of the users. It's
> been years since
> we blocked local media upload, now depending solely on
> Commons. This means,
> as far as I am aware, that the WMF logos are the only
> pictures used on
> Swedish Wikipedia that are not being spread under a "free"
> license, free in
> this case concerning copyright of course, and not trademark
> or personality
> rights (making comparisons to proper names irrelevant to
> the discussion).
> The use of these logos are thus the only thing standing in
> the way of
> stating that all material from Swedish Wikipedia can be
> freely reused,
> without any further permission. (The license template on
> the WMF logos
> reserve all rights and call for specific permission for
> use.) 
> The argument is not, and has never been, whether or not we
> are allowed to
> use the logos. Some users on Swedish Wikipedia as well as
> in this thread
> have given replies suggesting that they think that is what
> the issue is
> about. It is not. The issue is whether it is compliable
> with the principles
> of Wikipedia to include copyrighted material, which may not
> be re-used by
> others. I suppose that this dilemma is less problematic in
> jurisdictions
> that implement a "fair use" system, but where such are not
> present a
> copyrighted picture may not be freely redistributed.
> The current discussion on Swedish Wikipedia is divided into
> three main
> branches:
> 1.       Should we keep even the
> Wikipedia logo in the top left corner?
> 2.       Should we keep the WMF
> logos of navigation templates placed in
> articles?
> 3.       Should we illustrate
> articles on the Wikimedia projects with the
> logos?
> The discussions have, as far as I can tell, led to a near
> consensus "yes"
> for question 1, with the rationale that the picture is part
> of the GUI
> rather than of the article, and a near consensus "no" for
> number "3". Most
> of a lengthy debate has been over discussion number 2.
> The opinions on how to relate to number two diverge
> greatly. Some of us,
> including myself, would prefer to have all WMF logos
> removed from article
> space, including template use, making it free to
> redistribute printouts and
> PDF:s from Wikipedia articles. Some argue that since WMF
> will not pursuit
> any copyright breaches, we don't need to bother. This
> viewpoint is supported
> by those who think that the usability of the logos is too
> important to let
> the copyright issues take effect. A few have, in support of
> status quo,
> stated that there may be more to it, legally, than we know,
> but such claims
> have yet to be supported. 
> For some users a main perspective is that of NPOV. They
> argue that since no
> other external links are supported by pictures, neither
> should the links to
> sister projects be. Also, since no other copyrighted logo
> are allowed,
> neither should WMF:s logos be. To some of these users, the
> use of the logos
> in well framed templates is agreeable, since this implies
> that the links are
> part of the GUI rather than of the article itself.
> Right now it seems like one of two suggestions will be the
> result of the
> discussions. Either (1.) to allow the WMF logos in a few
> specific navigation
> templates. These may be javascript-controlled to exclude
> the logos from
> printouts and PDF:s. This has been tested and seems to
> work. The second (2.)
> solution discussed is to implement a separate section for
> sister project
> links, including logos, in the GUI menu section on the
> left.
> I hope that I, despite having made rather clear stands on
> the issue, have
> managed to convey a fair description of the discussion.
> /David Castor
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