[Foundation-l] Possible project

Thu Apr 29 07:59:44 UTC 2010

Hello Samuel,

I'm glad I got the right list.

According to your definition, the project fits Wikimedia's goal. I will now
introduce it.

The project is called Librelist. The official website introduces it quite
well, so I'll just quote it:

#######################################

Librelist is a free as in freedom mailing list site for open source
projects. It is a place for FOSS communities to discuss all the things they
want without ads, censorship, signup requirements, bundled apps, or
requirements that you use any particular email client or service.

Anyone Can Make A List

You can make a mailing list by simply sending an email to list at librelist.com,
and if it doesn’t exist, it will make it for you and subscribe you. That’s
all there is to it, and no restrictions on making the lists.

Anyone Can Subscribe To A List

You also subscribe to a list by simply sending your first message to
list at librelist.com. That’s it. It ditches your original message and sends
you a confirmation you reply to. No signup or web forms involved.

Spam And Bounce Blocking

Spam is heavily blocked on all lists to keep things clean. We will also
periodically ban anonymous email services if they become a vector for abuse.

Bounced emails are caught and anyone who bounces has all of their
subscriptions paused until they can fix the problem and reinstate
themselves.

############ End quote
Website address: http://librelist.org

I would like to add that Librelist is a much need alternative to existing
mailing list solutions. Let's say that a group of people, as you said, are
trying to collaborate over free knowledge. These people usually need a
mailing list. What options do they have?

There are two sets of options: (1) commercial solutions and (2) self-hosted
open-source solution.

Commercial mailing list providers, such as Google and Yahoo, have a lot of
resources in their disposal that could in principle be used for providing a
great mailing list service. But that's not what happens in practice. To
paraphrase a comment from Librelist's founder Zed Shaw, Google and Yahoo
optimize their services to give the best experience for the user; Problem
is, from their perspective, the "user" is not the person trying to
communicate on the mailing list, but the advertiser paying Google/Yahoo for
advertising on the mailing list.

Needless to say, this does not result in a very good experience for the
actual user. I know personally some people who manage a mailing list hosted
by Google, and I was told there are many problems with it, specifically an
abundance of spam and lack of good tools for dealing with it.

The second approach is to use mailing list software such as mailman or
piper. This has two problems:

(1) It requires a server for hosting the list, and a system administrator to
configure and maintain the mailing list. For some project this is a big
barrier, for others it's merely a waste of time and resources.

(2) The popular mailing list programs are not very good. Take mailman for
example, which is used for this mailing list. It does many things which may
have been considered acceptable 10 years ago, but not today. The
subscription process is cumbersome, the program sends the user his password
in plain text, and generally its interface looks like a 1995 website.

So there aren't very good options for a group that needs a mailing list. I
would like to note that I have been in this exact situation recently, as I
needed to make mailing lists for my open source projects. I just couldn't
find a good solution. This is how I found Librelist.

I believe that Librelist is a good solution, and I think of it as the
Wikipedia of mailing lists. Every user can start a new mailing list, and
post on any mailing list he wishes.

And I would say, that the biggest disadvantage Librelist currently has is
this: Since it is a relatively new community project, it's hard to trust
that it will stay operating and well-maintained for years. People don't want
to start a mailing list on a service that might get closed 6 months from
now. The founder of Librelist seems enthusiastic enough, but this is a
non-profit project for him, so it's impossible to be certain that he will
not become too busy for the project in the future.

I think that the Wikimedia foundation should sponsor this project. I think
it wouldn't require a big amount of resources, but it will require the
persistence and reliability over time that Wikimedia has shown with
Wikipedia and its other projects.

This will solve the concern I mentioned above, and will make Librelist a
very attractive choice for people who want to collaborate.

I'd be happy to hear any comments.

Best Wishes,
Ram Rachum.

On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Samuel Klein <meta.sj at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Ram,
>
> This is the right list, to the extent that one exists.
>
> It is hard to answer a question this abstract.  In general, Wikimedia
> hosts Projects that help people collaborate on free knowledge, and
> software, scripts and other tools related to those Projects (say, on
> our toolservers).  We are not a generic project host.  In what sense
> does this service have 'a spirit similar to  Wikimedia's projects'?
>
> Cheers,
> SJ
>
> On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 8:20 PM, cool-RR <cool-rr at cool-rr.com> wrote:
> > Hello all!
> >
> > This is my first time on any Wikimedia mailing list, so please forgive me
> if
> > I'm actually posting on the wrong list or something.
> >
> > I'm a programmer, and recently I've been using a nice little service,
> which
> > is run by a few independent programmers. The trouble is that it's a kind
> of
> > service which potential users would like to know that it will be
> maintained
> > well for a few years in the future, and these independent programmers
> can't
> > guarantee something like that. Then I thought, this project has a spirit
> > similar to Wikimedia's projects, so maybe Wikimedia would want to adopt
> it
> > or sponsor it? I think it will require little maintenance effort.
> >
> > Do note that this project is not a wiki exactly.
> >
> > I have not yet said what this project it, cause I'm not even sure I'm on
> the
> > right mailing list. Is this a good place to discuss this matter?
> >
> > (Also, please 'cc' me in any replies, because I don't get mail delivered
> > from this list.)
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> > Ram Rachum.
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>

-- 
Sincerely,
Ram Rachum