[Foundation-l] Report to the Board of Trustees June 2009-

Fri Sep 11 01:20:16 UTC 2009

The discussion about a budget line item being appropriate in one context 
and not in the next has been very interesting to me. And especially in 
this case as it involves the provision of food, which is one of the most 
  deeply held cultural norms in many communities.

Frugality is certainly a consideration for the WMF. I can say with my 
staff hat on that while we do get generous grants from foundations to 
help support your amazing work, everyone here also thinks about the $5 
that was donated by a student and feels a responsibility to that student.

However the word and concept of "frugality" differs significantly across 
cultures. In my experience with many non-Western cultures, asking people 
to bring lunch from home or spend their own money for it would not only 
exclude participation, it would insult people. If the purpose is to 
encourage participation and commitment to a newly forming organization, 
it seems it would be very important not to insult people.

In many cultures I've worked in, if you didn't bring cigarettes, you 
couldn't get a goat to listen to you. These may seem to be extreme 
cases, but I'm thinking about WMF and the Wikimedia movement as truly 
global. So I don't think we should dismiss this concept just because 
currently we aren't working with any people who require cigarettes 
before thinking about editing a Wikipedia.

I have no idea what the cultural norms for providing food at initial 
meetings are in Portugal or many other places. I just add my crumb to 
the discussion as a reminder that if we are wearing limited cultural 
lenses when we create policy, it will forever limit us to working within 
communities who are interested and able to live within those restrictions.

Jennifer Riggs

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Report to the Board of Trustees June 2009 (Thomas Dalton)
>    2. Re: Use of moderation (Austin Hair)
>    3. Re: Do we have a complete set of WMF projects? (Mike.lifeguard)
>    4. Re: Report to the Board of Trustees June 2009 (Pharos)
>    5. Re: Report to the Board of Trustees June 2009 (Thomas Dalton)
>    6. Re: Report to the Board of Trustees June 2009 (Thomas Dalton)
>    7. Re: Do we have a complete set of WMF projects? (David Gerard)
>    8. Re: Report to the Board of Trustees June 2009 (Chad)
>    9. Re: Report to the Board of Trustees June 2009 (Thomas Dalton)
>   10. Re: Report to the Board of Trustees June 2009 (Gerard Meijssen)
>   11. Re: Report to the Board of Trustees June 2009 (Thomas Dalton)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:41:07 +0100
> From: Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Report to the Board of Trustees June 2009
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> 	<foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<a4359dff0909101041q3d6d869foe02cb48c012cbcd7 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> 2009/9/10 Sue Gardner <sgardner at wikimedia.org>:
>> Hi Thomas!
>>
>> Sorry to top-post, and to be late replying. I believe that all 26
>> proposals are up now on the meta page. Let me know if you can't find
>> it, and I can post the link tonight when I'm back on my laptop.
> 
> The proposals are up, but not the details of which were accepted and
> which weren't. It would be useful to have that information when
> considering what to request funding for in future.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:06:20 -0500
> From: Austin Hair <adhair at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Use of moderation
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> 	<foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<e2a50e360909101106m6cc6a0eao51f41424f86c20db at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:15 AM, Henning Schlottmann
> <h.schlottmann at gmx.net> wrote:
>> Austin Hair wrote:
>>> My ideal, personally, is something more like nntp--and while I'm
>>> perfectly happy to turn over the list to some other technology, I
>>> don't know that this is the magic solution, and I agree with Tim that
>>> it risks killing what good we do have with the existing methods.
>> I'm reading and posting to the list using nntp. foundation-l is
>> distributed by gmane.org as the (pseudo) newsgroup
>> news:gemane.org.wikimedia.foundation on the server news.gmane.org along
>> with all the other Wikimedia mailing lists and it is by far the most
>> comfortable way to read the list.
> 
> Yes, but as gmane is simply a mail -> news gateway, the fundamental
> operation of the list remains the same.  The content management issues
> aren't affected.
> 
> Austin
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:18:50 -0300
> From: "Mike.lifeguard" <mike.lifeguard at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Do we have a complete set of WMF projects?
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> 	<foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID: <4AA9511A.2090902 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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> 
> Brion Vibber wrote:
>> IMO we need to do that for the projects we already have before we take
>> on new obligations!
>>
>> We still have very poor software support for:...
> 
> Thanks Brion, it is good to know that the tech team is aware of these
> issues and will be expending energy to improve how the software supports
> the non-Wikipedia projects. I'm looking forward in particular to seeing
> how the grant money will be spent for improving Commons' software, and
> what ideas may come about for giving Wikibooks some in-software structure.
> 
> - -Mike
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> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:27:07 -0400
> From: Pharos <pharosofalexandria at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Report to the Board of Trustees June 2009
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> 	<foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<ddc4b4860909101227s1701f247ifc8991c82eb939dc at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2009/9/10 Sue Gardner <sgardner at wikimedia.org>:
>>> Hi Thomas!
>>>
>>> Sorry to top-post, and to be late replying. I believe that all 26
>>> proposals are up now on the meta page. Let me know if you can't find
>>> it, and I can post the link tonight when I'm back on my laptop.
>> The proposals are up, but not the details of which were accepted and
>> which weren't. It would be useful to have that information when
>> considering what to request funding for in future.
> 
> There are 21 accepted proposals listed on this page:
> 
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters/WMF_grants/Reporting_Guidance
> 
> Since 26 were accepted in total, I guess this list in not quite
> complete yet; but still it makes for very useful reading.
> 
> Thanks,
> Richard
> (User:Pharos)
> Wikimedia NYC-personal view
> 
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:40:32 +0100
> From: Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Report to the Board of Trustees June 2009
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> 	<foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<a4359dff0909101240w76c3cbf8h152859ce4ee7348e at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> 2009/9/10 Pharos <pharosofalexandria at gmail.com>:
>> There are 21 accepted proposals listed on this page:
>>
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters/WMF_grants/Reporting_Guidance
> 
> Ah, well found! I didn't think to check that page - the title doesn't
> suggest it would contain such info.
> 
>> Since 26 were accepted in total, I guess this list in not quite
>> complete yet; but still it makes for very useful reading.
> 
> They may still be waiting to hear back from the other chapters.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:53:49 +0100
> From: Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Report to the Board of Trustees June 2009
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> 	<foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<a4359dff0909101253w60b72858x4e19ed4ba35b4a60 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> 2009/9/10 Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton at gmail.com>:
>> 2009/9/10 Pharos <pharosofalexandria at gmail.com>:
>>> There are 21 accepted proposals listed on this page:
>>>
>>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters/WMF_grants/Reporting_Guidance
>> Ah, well found! I didn't think to check that page - the title doesn't
>> suggest it would contain such info.
> 
> I must say, I am amazed that this was approved:
> 
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters/WMF_grants/WM_PT/Start-up
> 
> WMUK managed to get set up without paying for any meals and all
> meetings have taken place in pubs or rooms we've got hold of for free.
> Paying nearly $3,500 for that out of charitable donations is patently
> ridiculous.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:00:16 +0100
> From: David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Do we have a complete set of WMF projects?
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> 	<foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<fbad4e140909101300i5f3a3289vdbd8acded92d8a26 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> 2009/9/10 Brion Vibber <brion at wikimedia.org>:
> 
>> IMO we need to do that for the projects we already have before we take
>> on new obligations!
> 
> 
> Oh yesss.
> 
> 
>> We still have very poor software support for:
>> * Commons -- We need a sane upload and post-upload workflow (eg review
>> and deletion), and a clean system for handling structured metadata
>> (descriptions, authorship, licence info).
>> Some of this is being worked on now with Michael Dale's video & media
>> work, and the Ford Foundation grant will let us put more resources into
>> the workflow & metadata side, so this is the one I worry the least about. :)
> 
> 
> Categories as tags with arbitrary Boolean queries? Huh? Huh? Huh?
> 
> 
> - d.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:02:22 -0400
> From: Chad <innocentkiller at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Report to the Board of Trustees June 2009
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> 	<foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<5924f50a0909101302tb9ec3ffv51050b18ca4b6a0b at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2009/9/10 Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton at gmail.com>:
>>> 2009/9/10 Pharos <pharosofalexandria at gmail.com>:
>>>> There are 21 accepted proposals listed on this page:
>>>>
>>>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters/WMF_grants/Reporting_Guidance
>>> Ah, well found! I didn't think to check that page - the title doesn't
>>> suggest it would contain such info.
>> I must say, I am amazed that this was approved:
>>
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters/WMF_grants/WM_PT/Start-up
>>
>> WMUK managed to get set up without paying for any meals and all
>> meetings have taken place in pubs or rooms we've got hold of for free.
>> Paying nearly $3,500 for that out of charitable donations is patently
>> ridiculous.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
> 
> I hadn't read that either. Ridiculous, I agree. I doubt people are donating
> to the WMF for them to send the money to the Portuguese chapter for
> their lunches.
> 
> The only part of that budget that makes sense to me is the legal fees, and
> they're certainly not a back-breaking amount either.
> 
> -Chad
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:04:40 +0100
> From: Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Report to the Board of Trustees June 2009
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> 	<foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<a4359dff0909101304s242951b6vf4b45625a2e28d4 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> 2009/9/10 Chad <innocentkiller at gmail.com>:
>> I hadn't read that either. Ridiculous, I agree. I doubt people are donating
>> to the WMF for them to send the money to the Portuguese chapter for
>> their lunches.
>>
>> The only part of that budget that makes sense to me is the legal fees, and
>> they're certainly not a back-breaking amount either.
> 
> I have no objection, in principle, to travel and admin costs - WMUK
> paid for them out of our first membership fees. We didn't travel that
> much, though - I think there was one face-to-face meeting to actually
> sign things, everything else was done online.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:12:22 +0200
> From: Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Report to the Board of Trustees June 2009
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> 	<foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<41a006820909101312m59574349nef27e6bc3c6cbe0e at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> Hoi,
> I think it is not reasonable to judge others by how you do things. Please
> remember that there are different cultures where things are done in
> different ways. I am sure there are things in the history of the WMUK that
> you do not wish onto others.. Everyone has to deal with the local
> environment. This is one reason why we have different chapters ...
> Thanks,
>       GerardM
> 
> 2009/9/10 Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton at gmail.com>
> 
>> 2009/9/10 Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton at gmail.com>:
>>> 2009/9/10 Pharos <pharosofalexandria at gmail.com>:
>>>> There are 21 accepted proposals listed on this page:
>>>>
>>>>
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters/WMF_grants/Reporting_Guidance
>>> Ah, well found! I didn't think to check that page - the title doesn't
>>> suggest it would contain such info.
>> I must say, I am amazed that this was approved:
>>
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters/WMF_grants/WM_PT/Start-up
>>
>> WMUK managed to get set up without paying for any meals and all
>> meetings have taken place in pubs or rooms we've got hold of for free.
>> Paying nearly $3,500 for that out of charitable donations is patently
>> ridiculous.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:21:07 +0100
> From: Thomas Dalton <thomas.dalton at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Report to the Board of Trustees June 2009
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> 	<foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Message-ID:
> 	<a4359dff0909101321i684d792cv888608a70a5b2205 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> 2009/9/10 Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>:
>> Hoi,
>> I think it is not reasonable to judge others by how you do things. Please
>> remember that there are different cultures where things are done in
>> different ways. I am sure there are things in the history of the WMUK that
>> you do not wish onto others.. Everyone has to deal with the local
>> environment. This is one reason why we have different chapters ...
> 
> Nonsense. If British Wikimedians can afford their own food, so can
> Portuguese Wikimedians. They can bring a packed lunch from home if
> they want - they would be eating anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
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> End of foundation-l Digest, Vol 66, Issue 38
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