[Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies #2

Jimmy Wales jwales at wikia-inc.com
Mon Jun 8 18:24:51 UTC 2009

Couldn't the stats job you want run on toolserver?

Peter Gervai wrote:
> Hello,
> I wasn't subscribed to this list, since I usually try to avoid the
> politics around.
> I was notified, however, that some interesting claims were made and
> some steps taken (again) without any discussion whatsoever.
> First, let me tell it here again - as I have told it on a different
> list - that I am extremely disappointed by the lack of discussion
> before someone from outside seriously interfere with other project
> based on, as it turns out, incorrect informations. In the past people
> with privileges (if we ever considered them that way instead of people
> with work to be done) were more cautious. I would like you all
> fast-handed guys to slow down and talk first, get informed, and act
> later.
> I already commented elsewhere on vls, in summary I miss the discussion
> and I do not believe the case actually breached any privacy, but this
> isn't my concern now (as I'm in a bit of hurry).
> Regarding huwp, it would have been pretty easy to find out who to ask.
> Apart from the obvious choice of "anyone with any flags on huwp", it
> could've been easy to identify who made the changes, and ask them.
> Like, for example me.
> As far as I see, lots of wasted energies go around, like people
> planning how to block javascript, how to block counters, etc. It is
> the wrong way. The good way is, and I'm repeating myself again, is
> FIRST to get to know WHY these scripts are there in the first hand,
> what solution they have to solve. This is a crucial step, fellows,
> which you neglected to take. (And we all know that the reason is to
> create usage stats.)
> Next step should be examining whether there is anything this violates,
> like, Privacy Policy. In the case of Google this is debateable, since
> I don't know what is the scope of the data retention.
> However I completely do know about the Hungarian stats. Let me share
> the real information here, briefly, since I have to go soon, but I do
> not want to let you destroy something you're not aware of.
> The stats (which have, by surprise, a dedicated domain under th hu
> wikipedia domain) runs on a dedicated server, with nothing else on it.
> Its sole purpose to gather and publish the stats. Basically nobody
> have permission to log in the servers but me, and I since I happen to
> be checkuser as well it wouldn't even be ntertaining to read it, even
> if it wasn't big enough making this useless. I happen to be the one
> who have created the Hungarian checkuser policy, which is, as far as I
> know, the strictest one in WMF projects, and it's no joke, and I
> intend to follow it. (And those who are unfamiliar with me, I happen
> to be the founder of huwp as well, apart from my job in computer
> security.)
> If you would have gathered this knowledge (which means that the server
> is closed and run by an identified user to WMF), then you could have
> started the discussion.
> As it is obvious, don't make any interfering moves while discussing it
> for days, or even weeks, wouldn't change anything.
> What have you achieved with removing the code? You killed our stats,
> which provides us with the statistics originally WMF provided (same
> data content), but later killed off.
> We'll propose (huwp) some solutions on the problem, but I'll really
> have to go now. Tgr can help discussing it, and I'll thank him for his
> help in advance. :-)
> So, think about these in the weekend, I'm back on monday. I hop there
> can be an _useful_ discussion, with thinking people and not people
> acting on impulses.
> Peter Gervai
> Hungary
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