[Foundation-l] A local chapter without Wikimedians

Thu Nov 27 05:48:23 UTC 2008

Porantim, unfortunately we have a unique set of circumstances here. The fact that the discussions are in a language that many may be unable to read is a major hindrance. If you can point to the particular posts, then you will have met the proof issue. That being said, I do have some questions, mainly about why the chapter is still not legally organized, and whether or not the bylaws are legally ok as written. The membership section still disturbs me.  

----

Porantim,
infelizmente, temos um único conjunto de circunstâncias aqui. O fato de
que as discussões estão em um idioma que muitos podem ser incapazes de
ler é um grande entrave. Se você pode apontar para os lugares
particular, então você vai ter atendido a prova questão. Dito isto,
ainda tenho algumas dúvidas, principalmente sobre o motivo do capítulo
ainda não está legalmente organizada, e se existem ou não são
juridicamente o estatuto social ok como está escrita. A filiação seção
ainda me perturba.

________________________________
From: Porantim <porantim at gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 11:27:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] A local chapter without Wikimedians

Geoffrey,

We came here, on this list, looking for other opinions. Looking for any kind
of light.

We don't really need that you *make* somethink, but we need your expertise,
we need your view, your look [I don't know how I can say that].

We came here to open your eyes about the danger of a chapter without clear
positions can make, too.

Nobody says "work on bylaws was silenced *by Thomas*", but the evidences of
the problems is in our discussion list. Unfortunately, we can't translate
all the messages to english to show that and I think you have a lot of other
issues to take care.

Nobody request to "kill" a chapter too. We request to start again. Start
again because the process has transformed in a addicted process. *This*
addicted process is "killing the manifestation of thousands of hours of
work". You see?

Any way, perhaps this conversation can't make anythink more.

When Jimmy puts his personal feelings as the unique argument, no more have
to say. When he puts his friendship against the interests of the community,
no more remain to do.

You know, Jimmy is a kind of symbol to some us, maybe all of us. Then, when
he puts this conversation in that maniqueist form, I don't know what more
remain.

Jimmy has feelings about Thomas. That's OK to me, but there is no argument
against that, when that is de unique argument.

I apologize to do you lost your time.

My hope is that I am wrong (and the remain of brazillian wikimedians) and
Jimmy and his friend are rigth.

I apologize too if any of my words sounds offensive. I can't speak english
well.

Thanks Geoffrey about your care in try to translate your messages to
portuguese.

Saludos

-- Porantim

2008/11/26 Geoffrey Plourde <geo.plrd at yahoo.com>

> Beria,
>
> I meant no offense by my remarks. I apologize if any was taken, that was
> not the point. By disruptive, I was not referring to Luiz, but the request
> to kill a chapter, for the reasons listed below.
>
> I don't believe that killing the manifestation of thousands of hours of
> work is going to solve any dispute. I am going off what we have currently.
> As far as I can see, we have an assertion that work on bylaws was silenced
> by Thomas. We have two people that vouch for his character (Mr. Wales, you).
> We do not have any hard evidence proving that Thomas killed the discussion.
> If there is some, we should see it. Otherwise, it appears that this is
> simple dissatisfaction which in my not so humble opinion has no place on
> this list.
>
>
> Since some people may be unable to follow this thread, I have translated my
> comments into something that resembles Portuguese.
>
> Respectfully Yours;
>
> Geoffrey Plourde
>
> -----
> Beria,
>
> Eu quis dizer que não ofenda por minhas observações.
> Peço desculpas se alguma foi tomada, não foi esse o ponto. Por
> perturbador, não me referia ao Luiz, mas o pedido de matar um capítulo,
> pelos motivos listados abaixo.
>
> Não creio que matar a
> manifestação de milhares de horas de trabalho está indo para resolver
> qualquer litígio. Eu vou desligar o que temos actualmente. Tanto quanto
> eu posso ver, temos um trabalho em alegação de que foi silenciada pelo
> Estatuto Social Thomas. Temos duas pessoas que atestam a sua personagem
> (Mr. País de Gales, você). Nós não temos qualquer evidência sólida de
> provar que Thomas mataram a discussão. Se houver algum, que devemos
> encará-la. Caso contrário, parece que este é simples insatisfação que,
> na minha modesta opinião não assim não tem lugar nesta lista.
>
> Uma vez que algumas pessoas pode não ser capaz de seguir essa linha, eu
> tenho o meu comentário traduzido em algo que se assemelha Português.
>
> Yours respeitosamente;
>
> Geoffrey Plourde
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Béria Lima <berialima at gmail.com>
> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 3:08:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] A local chapter without Wikimedians
>
> Geoffrey...
>
> The guy whit you are talking is one of the best sysops on pt.wikipedia.
> Don't be maniqueist please.
>
> The case is: Thomas is a good guy... but in the mailing list he stopped all
> the process of consensus. The problem is not just a discussion of Porantim
> and Thomas... are more of 10 wikipedist that agree whit Porantim, me and
> Luiz Augusto. Don't ut that in terms of "dispurtive", "vandal" or anything
> about that...
>
> We are discuss the bylaws again... because that mensage of Luiz. Before
> that
> Thomas and another user don't permit the dialog.
>
> Att, Béria Lima
>
> 2008/11/25 Geoffrey Plourde <geo.plrd at yahoo.com>
>
> > I agree, why the hell should we blow off a couple thousand hours of work
> > and toast a chapter? While there may be some issues in the bylaws and
> they
> > still need to legally organize, there is more support for this chapter
> than
> > some of the European ones.
> >
> > My friend, this is starting to appear disruptive.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia-inc.com>
> > To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:42:35 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] A local chapter without Wikimedians
> >
> > Luiz Augusto wrote:
> > > This is what we need: to stop the current attempt and start it again
> >
> > Why?
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
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> >
> >
> >
> >
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