[Foundation-l] A local chapter without Wikimedians

Mon Nov 24 20:27:58 UTC 2008

With regards to the bylaw changes, what exactly were they?

________________________________
From: Thomas de Souza Buckup <thomasdesouzabuckup at gmail.com>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 8:22:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] A local chapter without Wikimedians

Hello all,

Good to hear your thoughts. I'll share with you how I see what is going on
and how we could tackle the issues mentioned on the previous messages.
First, let me summarize below the Brazilian Chapter's history, for those
unaware of it:

1.     From April to August 2008 the bylaws have been openly discussed and
collaboratively translated into English by a group of 13
people<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Brasil/Bylaws#Thanks_to...>.
All the steps were constantly communicated to the remaining
group<http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Brasil/Participantes&diff=1154643&oldid=1148591>of
around 35 people interested in helping the local chapter.
2.     In September and October the Chapters Committee and the Board of
Trustees approved the bylaws.

3.     In October a group of less than 5 people (including Beria Lima,
Porantim and Luis Augusto) decided to make new suggestions for the text of
the already approved bylaws. The discussion of this alternative content was
opened on Meta<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Brasil/Estatuto_2>,
but very little people participated so far (less than 10 people, including
some from the mailing-list) and the opinions on the matter are still divided
among them.

4.     In November, Jimmy Wales came to Brazil and the press reported the
existence of a local chapter, formed by volunteers only and open to anyone
interested to be part of it. The list of potential volunteers jumped to more
than 120 people<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Brasil/Participantes>after
it.

5.     So far, no legal entity has been created and there is no such a group
of Wikimedia representatives. There are, on the other hand, many dedicated
volunteers working together in different projects. For instance, the
event/debate with the presence of Jimmy Wales was organized by some of these
volunteers and it has not used Wikimedia trademarks.

As far as I understand, there are 3 main issues being discussed. I'll share
below my point-of-view on each subject:

A.    Changes to the bylaws

B.    Participation of non-wikimedians and hostile behavior

C.    Risk of potential illicit activities

*A.     **Changes to the bylaws*

The discussion is still open, but so far very few people participated and
the opinions are divided. My opinion has been that there could be a
deadline, when either there are enough people willing to change the bylaws,
or the approved version could be used to create a legal entity for the local
chapter. In my opinion, we could agree on a two-month period and a target of
at least the same number of people willing to submit a new version as there
was for the already approved first version.

*B.     **Participation of non-wikimedians and hostile behavior*

Any hostile behavior or obstacles for participation of non-wikimedians
should ever be accepted within the Wikimedia community. Everybody should be
able to join and contribute politely to the promotion of Wikimedia's mission
and vision. And the community of volunteers in Brazil will select its legal
representatives only when a General Meeting of the future local chapter
happens. As long as there is no such meeting, the community will be formed
of volunteers only.

*C.     **Risk of potential illicit activities*

Due to concerns already raised and the local context for NGOs, I agree that
an independent auditing firm should be hired to evaluate the financial
statements that will be presented by the local chapter. Although it may be
expensive, the local community could agree on this initiative in order to
avoid any risk. There is also the possibility of establishing a local
pro-bono relationship with KMPG, Wikimedia Foundation's auditing firm.

Please feel invited to join the Brazilian Chapter's
Mailing-list<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/WikimediaBR-l>(at
least temporarily, if you prefer) and to visit the pages
on Meta <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Brasil>, where everything
has been openly discussed. All my personal information and contacts have
always been public on Meta, but I share it once again if anyone feels like
further discussing privately (skype thomasbuckupbrasil, phone 5511 9213
3931).
Abracos,
Thomas

On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 8:32 AM, Andrew Whitworth <wknight8111 at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 7:50 AM, Béria Lima <berialima at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Your problem (mine and of the boys) is NOT that have non wikimedians in
> > brazilian chapter. Is because that non wikimedians hostilize every
> > wikimedian and don't permite anyone discussion... every is taboo.
>
> The problem is that there isn't any real way to judge these situations
> prior to chapcom approval. When we get bylaws from a chapter group, we
> only know the things that we've been told about the organization, and
> the things we've heard by chance. We don't do any kind of
> investigation, or go out of our way to solicit feedback from the
> community. We also don't have a strict requirement that new chapters
> contain any number of active wikimedians. Red flags obviously go up if
> we find a group that doesn't contain any, but I'm not sure such a
> group couldn't get approved if they tried hard enough under the
> current system.
>
> Something like a public hearing over all new bylaws would help to
> eliminate these problems, assuming active wikimedians attended such
> meetings and raised objections. Of course, having to schedule and
> organize such a meeting, even a virtual one over IRC, would
> dramatically increase the amount of time that it takes for bylaws to
> clear the committee. The Brazil group would have even made this more
> difficult because they made it clear to us that they were under time
> pressure due to Jimmy's visit. So many chapters have told us that
> significant delays in approval by the chapcom and the board have a
> chilling effect on a chapter, sometimes an insurmountable one because
> of lost enthusiasm and momentum.
>
> The closest solution that I can imagine, and I'm not speaking as a
> chapcom member right now, would be to create chapters in some sort of
> probationary status for a year or so, before they become "official".
> This way we could identify those groups that don't meet our
> expectations in practice (as opposed to the "on paper" review they get
> now) and rescind their status because of that. It might be worthwhile
> for the community to review exactly what requirements are needed to
> become and to remain a chapter.
>
> > Someone said for we change the bylaws to protect Wikimedia Brasil. We try
> > that, but every time when we tried... We have been silenced with the
> > argument: "The Wikimedia approved the bylaws of the way that is"
>
> Chapters are independent organizations and do not need chapcom/WMF
> approval to change their bylaws. As Michael says, we usually like to
> hear about changes, just as we like to hear about any other news from
> chapters. If we become aware of changes that are highly negative we
> might review them to see that the chapter still meets our
> expectations, but this has never happened so I am only speculating. We
> simply don't have the infrastructure to keep track of every change
> made by every chapter to their bylaws, their operating procedures, or
> their membership composition.
>
> The chapcom is definitely going to discuss this issue, but lots of
> feedback and ideas will be appreciated.
>
> --Andrew Whitworth
>
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-- 
Thomas de Souza Buckup
thomasdesouzabuckup at gmail.com
+5...
+5...
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