[Foundation-l] Fwd: [WikiEN-l] Bot policy for all wikis

Thu May 29 08:26:14 UTC 2008

Like I said what you are saying is an issue to be sorted out with the
developers of interwiki.py at the pywikipediabot bugzilla. You can link to
the discussion at pywikipediabot bugzilla. What ja.wikipedia or en.wikipedia
or tr.wikipedia agrees on a discrete sub page in a language the bot operator
does not know is not very helpful. Via SVN that change can be applied to
each and every running instance of interwiki.py.

The idea behind this proposal is to set a standard so both communities and
bot operators take a deep breath from the bureaucracy and instead focus on
the actual work.

Any unnecessary restrictions should be lifted.

    - White Cat

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 12:45 AM, Aphaia <aphaia at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 6:37 AM, Ziko van Dijk <zvandijk at googlemail.com>
> wrote:
> > I too prefer the order of the interwiki links to be alphabetical by
> > the language codes. This makes it easier to find interwiki's.
> > Sometimes for a new article I take over the interwiki's from en.WP,
> > also then it is better to have them in the same order they will have
> > in the other WP.
> > Ziko
>
> Me too, just becase it is easy to place, but personally I don't care
> the other prefer the other way. Japanese may prefer kana (50-on) order
> (it is an phonetic order so a bit different from "alphabetical" order
> of the heading letter). Each wiki may know their reader at most: why
> should we create a global standard which may not be the best for every
> wiki?
>
> >
> > 2008/5/28 Jon <scream at datascreamer.com>:
> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >> Hash: SHA1
> >>
> >> Mark Williamson wrote:
> >>> Let me add that I think it's ridiculous to use the sorting order of
> >>> the Roman alphabet for languages that don't use it.
> >>>
> >>> I can appreciate the sentiment of wanting to sort people's languages
> >>> alphabetically according to the native names for the languages, but
> >>> there is no scheme for sorting all writing systems, rather, each
> >>> writing system has its own sorting order. It could very possibly be
> >>> counterintuitive for a speaker of Hebrew to find "עברית" between H and
> >>> J, instead they are expecting to find it between samech and peh. I'm
> >>> guessing that the second thought, when it's not there (because most of
> >>> the entries are in the Latin alphabet, so they can't look between
> >>> samech and peh), is to look for it under the "H" for "Hebrew" rather
> >>> than under the I for "Ivrit", but I could be wrong, this is just an
> >>> example.
> >>>
> >>> Mark
> >>>
> >>> 2008/5/28 Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com>:
> >>>> I do think it's unacceptable that Interwiki bots go in and change the
> >>>> order of interwikis against the agreed-upon orders at each Wiki.
> >>>>
> >>>> I remember a while back, we agreed on en.wp to order interwiki links
> >>>> by code, and it seems that the bots never cared - ja: always came
> >>>> after nl: rather than after it:. I'm not sure if a different policy
> >>>> has been decided since then, but bots have always been oblivious, it
> >>>> seems.
> >>>>
> >>>> Mark
> >>>>
> >>>> 2008/5/28 Kwan Ting Chan <ktc at ktchan.info>:
> >>>>> Hmm, it appears it didn't forward properly last time. Let's try
> again.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> KTC
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, 2008-05-28 at 03:55 +0300, White Cat wrote:
> >>>>>> We should require interwiki bot operators to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Know each language they operate their bot so that they can read and
> memorize
> >>>>>> each and every bot policy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Expect them to watch and follow each and every talk page on every
> wiki.
> >>>>>> Require them to have 5-10 checks of these talk pages per day.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Wait several years (for the wiki to grow) before getting a bot flag.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Or would that be unreasonable?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Perhaps a unified standard bot policy is needed for mindless tasks
> like
> >>>>>> interwiki linking, double redirect fixing and commons delinking.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The interwiki bot policy would set the standard for these mindless
> tasks.
> >>>>>> Such a standard would let bot operators to operate more efficiently.
> >>>>>> Particularly the largest wikis and the smallest wikis are very aloof
> from
> >>>>>> such a standard.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Very small wikis often have a mini dictatorship by a few users (not
> >>>>>> referancing anybody spesific). Such small wikis generally have
> cooperative
> >>>>>> people but sometimes the wikis regulars do not understand what
> interwiki
> >>>>>> bots and botflags are about and why such are necessary.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Very large wikis often have overly complicated policies. For someone
> only
> >>>>>> interested in dealing with mindless bot tasks these pose an
> unnecessary
> >>>>>> bureaucracy. Due to the language barrier reading these policies
> alone can be
> >>>>>> quite a challenge.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>      - White Cat
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> WikiEN-l mailing list
> >>>>>> WikiEN-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
> >>>>>  - Heinrich Heine
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
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> >>
> >>
> >> We could just not get wrapped around the axle about sorting interwiki
> >> links.  I don't think it is a large issue.  I can be convinced otherwise
> >> however.
> >>
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Jon
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ziko van Dijk
> > NL-Silvolde
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> KIZU Naoko
> http://d.hatena.ne.jp/Britty (in Japanese)
> Quote of the Day (English): http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/WQ:QOTD
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