[Foundation-l] Advertisements? (core principles and variable mild principles)

[Florence Devouard]

Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> Please define "our core principles". There are people vehemently against
> advertisements and there are many people cowered into silence. What has
> always been said and this is a good thing is that if it is not necessary to
> have advertisements, we will not. Equating no advertisements with core
> principles is ludicrous; it means that others may make money from our effort
> and we do not make the money we need for the activities we have planned, the
> costs that we incur...

Given that advertisements we are discussing would be displayed on the 
projects websites, I think that by "core principles", he means "core 
principles of each project".

"NPOV" is clearly a core principle, for Wikipedia
"Free licence" is clearly a core principle, for ALL projects
"No advertisment" is clearly not a core principle. It may be a 
principle-by-precedence. I would call it a mild principle if you wish.

Core principles on the english wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_pillars_of_Wikipedia

Note that core principles of each project can differ slightly.
Note that core principles within a project, between languages, might 
even differ a bit as well. In particular for young projects.

This might suggest that certain decisions might be taken for certain 
projects, but not others.

Hmmm, care for me to give an example ?

Search system on en.wiki: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=&fulltext=Search
(no reference to outside search engines. No advertisement)

Search system on fr.wiki:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=&fulltext=Search
(several little known search systems are mentionned, which is a sort of 
advertisement. However, display is pretty discreet).

Search system on ja.wiki:
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=&fulltext=Search
(several search systems are boldly mentionned, with logo. Clear 
advertisement for these huge rich search systems, without any bucks for 
us. After all, Mozilla is making big bucks in putting a search system 
for Google in Firefox. Here, we put a nice advertisement for Google for 
free)

What does it teach us ?

1. It is demonstration enough that advertisement is a mild principle.

2. It also reveals that there are many types of advertisement possible, 
and that before taking a position for or against advertisement, it would 
be a good idea to identify the various types of advertisement.
Typical examples are
* ads in article space
* ad for a search engine (in the search area)
* ads in the search results space
* thank you ad on the main page (for a sponsor)
* thank you ad on all pages (for a sponsor)
* etc...
I take it some will mostly meet opposition, whilst others could be 
acceptable.

3. it is a demonstration that we are currently doing advertisement, and 
not making bucks on it. And no one complains. So, what does bugs people 
the most ? Doing advertisement ? Or doing advertisement and making money 
of it ?

4. it also shows that each community might have a different perspective 
on this. With naturally a general opinion (would english editors care if 
we displayed advertisement on the japanese wikipedia ?)

Ant