[Foundation-l] Concern for the safety of Wikimanians in Alexandria
Mark Williamson
node.ue at gmail.com
Sat Mar 8 01:22:59 UTC 2008
So because El-Iskandariyyah is better than Abu Dhabi, we should be thankful?
There are more liberal cities in the Arab world, from what I remember
learning in my Arabic classes... no example comes to mind though.
Mark
On 07/03/2008, Aude <audevivere at gmail.com> wrote:
> 1. Do you know that the UAE heavily censors the Internet, including content
> on YouTube, Flickr, Facebook, MySpace, etc? They also block all
> .il<http://tr_1204913557965>(Israeli) websites.
> http://www.opennetinitiative.net/studies/uae/
> http://www.arabianbusiness.com/511899-facebook-myspace-to-be-banned
>
> Though Egypt monitors the Internet, they do not censor sites like those.
> While not perfect (what place is?), Egypt is comparatively a much more
> moderate Muslim country.
>
> 2. The UAE is unwelcoming of visitors who have an Israeli stamp on their
> passport, yet alone if you have an Israeli passport. Egypt has diplomatic
> relations with Israel, with people from Israel welcome to visit Egypt.
>
> 3. There was no bid from Dubai. The Alexandria team is offering the venue,
> the organizational efforts (including their experience hosting conferences),
> etc. for Wikimania, within reasonable costs. These are also very important
> factors, as is rotating the location to different parts of the world. Given
> the whole of the bid criteria, Alexandria is a fine choice and think it will
> be a good time for all that come.
>
> -Aude
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Dan Rosenthal <swatjester at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Gerard, I'm not denying that there is value to spreading free
> > knowledge in countries that need it most. But what I do argue is that
> > Wikimania is the best way to do so, and at what cost do we do that? A
> > conference in Dubai would likely stimulate the ar.wikipedia even more,
> > and yet it would not have anywhere near as many concerns as Alexandria.
> >
> > Wikimedia should not be worrying about how to fit into other culture's
> > point of view. What's important is Wikimedia's point of view, and how
> > other countries can help support it the best. You're talking about
> > risks of culture changing and challenging us, but nobody is arguing
> > that. We're talking about risks in a single event.
> >
> > -Dan
> > On Mar 7, 2008, at 9:58 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> >
> > > Hoi,
> > > What we differ on is the basic question:
> > >
> > > - What is WIkimania there for
> > >
> > > Of primary importance is its value to spread and spread our message.
> > > You do
> > > spread the message most effectively by stimulating the countries, the
> > > languages where we have an emerging presence. Taipei was brilliant
> > > because
> > > it not only gave us a lot of publicity in Asia, it was also
> > > instrumental in
> > > building a chapter for Taiwan.
> > >
> > > This is exactly what the Alexandria conference is likely to do in
> > > Egypt. It
> > > is likely to stimulate the ar.wikipedia enormously.
> > >
> > > By going to countries like Egypt we will meet other cultures other
> > > points of
> > > view. When you are not willing to reach out, when the only thing you
> > > can
> > > consider is the comfort of easy locations like Frankfurt, Boston our
> > > POV
> > > will not be tested against the opinions, the attitudes of other
> > > cultures and
> > > we will not be the challenging innovative organisation that we have
> > > been so
> > > far. There is a risk that other cultures will change us, challenge
> > > us but
> > > that is exactly what we have always taken pride in.
> > > Thanks,
> > > GerardM
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 3:37 PM, Dan Rosenthal <swatjester at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> If you and I disagree on what is obvious, and other people on this
> > >> list do as well, you can hardly make generalizations about Alexandria
> > >> as being a "brilliant" location, that extend anywhere beyond your own
> > >> opinion. Alexandria was not a "brilliant" choice, in fact many people
> > >> believe it was a very poor choice. Notice I'm not saying "it is a
> > >> poor
> > >> choice". The difference is in being able to differentiate one's
> > >> subjective opinion from the objective facts, something I think you
> > >> find it very difficult to do when you make statements like "It is for
> > >> this reason that places like Taipei and Alexandria are brilliant."
> > >> That is your subjective opinion that Alexandria is a "brilliant"
> > >> location. Others think that it is a very poor location. It's
> > >> "brilliance", if any, extends only to your own opinion. "So when you
> > >> think the risk is too big, you do not go." Again, this is your own
> > >> opinion. Others think different actions are appropriate to take when
> > >> they see a risk. Your opinion only extends in this case to your own
> > >> behavior, not anyone else's.
> > >>
> > >> -Dan
> > >> On Mar 7, 2008, at 9:24 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hoi,
> > >>> We disagree on what is obvious. For me it is obvious that we need to
> > >>> spread
> > >>> the message of our projects and about our way as wide as possible.
> > >>> This
> > >>> means that we should go where we are weak but are building a
> > >>> presence. Going
> > >>> to the places that you where we are already doing well is missing
> > >>> important
> > >>> opportunities. It is for this reason that places like Taipei and
> > >>> Alexandria
> > >>> are brilliant.
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>> GerardM
> > >>>
> > >>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Dan Rosenthal <swatjester at gmail.com>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Mar 7, 2008, at 4:49 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Considering that the
> > >>>>> number of articles is slowly becoming more balanced and
> > >>>>> considering
> > >>>>> that
> > >>>>> even the English Wikipedia has contributors all over the world,
> > >>>>> there is no
> > >>>>> such thing as an "obvious" location to choose from.
> > >>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>> GerardM
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Being that there is no "obvious location", Gerard, then there is no
> > >>>> reason to pick a location that has significant drawbacks. There are
> > >>>> many European, North American, even Asian locations that are
> > >>>> accessible to the vast majority of the world, in some cases
> > >>>> probably
> > >>>> less expensively than Alexandria, (since places that are major
> > >>>> international airport hubs usually have the cheapest airfares, and
> > >>>> generally do not require a connecting flight ticket), that are more
> > >>>> free and open societies, without as intense worries about
> > >>>> censorship,
> > >>>> terrorism, or implicitly supporting human rights violations.
> > >>>> Toronto,
> > >>>> DC, New York, Berlin, Paris, London, Tokyo, Seoul, San Francisco,
> > >>>> Moscow, Vienna, Prague, etc. If there is no "obvious location" to
> > >>>> choose from, why not any of these places that are safer, do not
> > >>>> require out attendees to pretend they are not gay or jewish, do not
> > >>>> discriminate against women, etc.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -Dan
> > >>>>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
>
> Aude
>
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