[Foundation-l] Concern for the safety of Wikimedians at Wikimania in Alexandria.

[Mark Williamson]

I think the main difference here is that drug use is illegal in almost
every country, the Netherlands being an exception. Homosexual activity
is decriminalized in almost all of the Americas and Europe as well as
much of Asia (which is not part of the Western world, so there!).

The way women are treated varies greatly among cultures as well, so
I'm not going to say that women will be better or worse off in Egypt
than in country X, Y, or Z.

Mark

On 04/03/2008, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hoi,
>  What is there to be offended at. When I go to the USA I can expect behaviour
>  that is completely accepted in my home country to land me in jail. When I
>  came into the Taipei airport the first message was that smugglers of drugs
>  can expect the death penalty.
>
>  As I stated earlier, your freedom is limited by the freedom of others. When
>  you feel offended by this, you can only stay home.
>  Thanks,
>     GerardM
>
>  NB I do not use drugs so crazy ineffectual measures against drugs do not
>  threaten me.
>
>
>  On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 4:48 AM, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  > Yes, and I think Gerard's "When you insist on behaving in a manner
>  > that is offensive to others your safety can not be guaranteed." is
>  > perhaps putting it the wrong way. That statement certainly offended
>  > me.
>  >
>  > On 03/03/2008, Dan Rosenthal <swatjester at gmail.com> wrote:
>  > > When the Wikimedia Foundation puts us in a situation that our mere
>  > > existence is offensive to others, and our mere existence in a country
>  > > endangers our safety, it's a good sign we should not be holding
>  > > conferences there. Being openly jewish, gay, or a westernized woman is
>  > > offensive to some in Egypt, and unless one is forced to subject
>  > > themselves to coercive rules and limitations that, I should mention,
>  > > fundamentally violate standard human rights, then their safety cannot
>  > > be guaranteed.
>  > >
>  > > I don't know how this isn't clear to you Gerard. When we have a
>  > > situation where our conference attendee's sexual preferences, gender,
>  > > religion, and birth country must hidden or denied, in order to assure
>  > > their safety, we simply should NOT be hosting conferences there. It is
>  > > an implicit statement that Wikimedia does not support human rights --
>  > > the right to freedom of religion, freedom of nationality, freedom of
>  > > sexual preference, and freedom from gender discrimination. It's
>  > > absolutely unacceptable to say "Instead of admitting that we picked a
>  > > stupid place to host a conference, we're going to stand by it and
>  > > force our conference goers to choose between their safety, and their
>  > > human rights." That's a fundamentally wrong thing for the Wikimedia
>  > > Foundation to do, but it's precisely what they've been doing.
>  > >
>  > > -Dan
>  > >
>  > > On Mar 3, 2008, at 6:09 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>  > >
>  > > > In the end it is about freedom. The freedom that is available to you
>  > > > is limited by the freedom available to others. When you insist on
>  > > > behaving
>  > > > in a manner that is offensive to others your safety can not be
>  > > > guaranteed. The rights and the treatment that you take for granted
>  > > > in your
>  > > > normal environment is not necessarily what will be available in other
>  > > > environments. This is rather elementary I would say.
>  > >
>  > >
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>  > >
>  >
>  >
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