[Foundation-l] An observation on languages

[Mark Williamson]

I think the big problem is that some people use threaded e-mail and
others do not.

When I was so hated by all for posting so much back in the day, I
raised this issue.

For those of us who use Gmail (and other threaded e-mail clients?),
someone sending out 3 responses to a thread in rapid succession is not
noticeable from our inbox view and cannot be really said to create
much clutter.

Having said that - I actually started my Gmail account _for the very
purpose_ of subscribing to Wikipedia-l. Prior to that I used a Hotmail
account.

People who don't use Gmail should probably stop whining; it's a free
service, it is no longer invite-only, and anyone who is subscribed to
a high-traffic listserv such as this _should_ be using it or something
like it. What's your excuse?

Mark

On 25/01/2008, Nathan <nawrich at gmail.com> wrote:
> Some people (like me!) may not realize their posting habits to this
> list make it difficult for others to follow along or contribute
> constructively. If you see someone who is posting in good faith but
> may not realize they are exacerbating a problem, the easiest thing to
> do is to let them know (and then ignore them after!).
>
> Nathan
>
> On Jan 25, 2008 9:49 AM, Birgitte SB <birgitte_sb at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I would encourage people who feel this way to set up
> > their mail to ignore those that they find too often
> > heated and/or off-topic.  If there is a thread that
> > really interests me, I tend to read it through the
> > archives to make sure I don't miss anything.  But even
> > just having two people ignored makes this mailing list
> > a different place.  And then maybe it will be easier
> > to reply on-topic as you won't realize so much has
> > been said.
> >
> > Birgitte SB
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Jerome Banal <jerome.banal at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Seconded.
> > >
> > > The only things I feel comfortable posting here are
> > > 2 lines long answers or
> > > are answers to post that are left unanswered since
> > > several hours.
> > > Coming with a thoughtful/insightful answer takes
> > > time, but in the mean time
> > > you can be sure that 10 mails will have been posted
> > > on the thread, posts
> > > that you will need to read to make sure you are not
> > > making a redundant post
> > > or missing an important idea. And often, the subject
> > > has drifted so far that
> > > such a post would seems by then off-topic compared
> > > to the heated posts of
> > > that time.
> > >
> > > So I think most peoples now remain silent and just
> > > try to keep themselves
> > > informed but do not voice their opinions as it feels
> > > a waste of time.
> > >
> > > And I live in England, so the language is not even
> > > much a problem for me.
> > > Just imagine peoples for which this list is the main
> > > daily contact with
> > > English language...
> > >
> > > Jerome
> > >
> > >
> > > 2008/1/25, Delphine Ménard <notafishz at gmail.com>:
> > > >
> > > > On Jan 25, 2008 6:10 AM,  <daniwo59 at aol.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Looking over this list for the past couple of
> > > months, several key issues
> > > > > have been discussed. I notice, however, that
> > > most of the discussion is
> > > > by
> > > > > members of the English projects, with the
> > > notable exception of Gerard.
> > > > In
> > > > > comparison, two years ago on Foundation-l and
> > > three and four years ago
> > > > on  Wikipedia-l
> > > > > (pre-Foundation-l), there was much more vigorous
> > > participation from
> > > > > representatives of other projects. In fact, that
> > > is what made Wikipedia
> > > > a truly
> > > > > international organization.
> > > > >
> > > > > I wonder where so many of the participants of
> > > those discussions have
> > > > > drifted. Is the discussion taking place on
> > > chapter lists, at the expense
> > > > of  the
> > > > > Foundation umbrella, or is it taking place on
> > > internal-l, at the expense
> > > > ory to keep themselves
> > > informed but do not voice their opinions as it feels
> > > a waste of time.
> > >
> > > And I live in England, so the language is not even
> > > much a problem for me.
> > > Just imagine peoples for which this list is the main
> > > daily contact with
> > > English language...
> > >
> > > Jerome
> > >
> > >
> > > 2008/1/25, Delphine Ménard <notafishz at gmail.com>:
> > > >
> > > > On Jan 25, 2008 6:10 AM,  <daniwo59 at aol.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > Looking over this list for the past couple of
> > > months, several key issues
> > > > > have been discussed. I notice, however, that
> > > most of the discussion is
> > > > by
> > > > > members of the English projects, with the
> > > notable exception of Gerard.
> > > > In
> > > > > comparison, two years ago on Foundation-l and
> > > three and four years ago
> > > > on  Wikipedia-l
> > > > > (pre-Foundation-l), there was much more vigorous
> > > participation from
> > > > > representatives of other projects. In fact, that
> > > is what made Wikipedia
> > > > a truly
> > > > > international organization.
> > > > >
> > > > > I wonder where so many of the participants of
> > > those discussions have
> > > > > drifted. Is the discussion taking place on
> > > chapter lists, at the expense
> > > > of  the
> > > > > Foundation umbrella, or is it taking place on
> > > internal-l, at the expense
> > > > of
> > > > > transparency.
> > > >
> > > > As far as I can make out, neither.
> > > >
> > > > I'd have one explanation though. There comes a
> > > point where reading in
> > > > a language that is not yours, on a list that
> > > sprouts an average of 20
> > > > emails of more than 2 pages a day, very often on a
> > > level of English
> > > > that is hard to follow, just prevents one, as a
> > > non-English speaker,
> > > > from participating. I consider myself as having a
> > > rather good level of
> > > > English, but sorry, when you get a thread
> > > dominated by lengthy English
> > > > speakers, I just give up.
> > > >
> > > > Apart from that, I find that people who have
> > > little to say on a
> > > > subject, or who actually answer "on the side", are
> > > somehow also too
> > > > present, and answer faster than their shadow [1],
> > > often depleting a
> > > > thread of its substance in the very first emails
> > > to veer towards
> > > > uninteresting side conversations, or even
> > > considerations that have
> > > > nothing to do with the subject at hand. Which, for
> > > those who might
> > > > have something to say about a subject but need a
> > > little time to
> > > > formulate their answer, means that they'd be going
> > > back to a dead
> > > > thread when they're ready to participate.
> > > >
> > > > To summarize: Level of English and fast pace of
> > > tation-l
>


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