[Foundation-l] Preservation of cultural diversity and minority languages

Tue Feb 12 20:29:23 UTC 2008

Hoi,
We have the statistics to prove it.

As I indicated before, we have imported the localisations from Wikipedias,
nothing was wasted. Our most precious resource are the people who help with
the localisation and we do not ask them to do things that are not necessary.

As to focusing on projects, I spend my time on the things that are relevant
to me. Betawiki is extremely relevant for all the MediaWiki projects I am
involved in. The localisation of OmegaWiki is done at Betawiki as well.
Betawiki is the best place to do localisation for MediaWiki. My time and
effort is most effectively used by improving and promoting necessary infra
structure. Yes, I see OmegaWiki as infra structure.
Thanks,
     GerardM

On Feb 12, 2008 8:36 PM, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:

> "completed on Betawiki" does not measure all existing localization.
>
> You said earlier: "It is only in 2008 that the first three exclusively
> African languages have the most relevant messages in MediaWiki
> localised."
>
> That's patently false - maybe it's only in 2008 that they have
> localisation on Betawiki, but Betawiki is not the world. I do think
> Betawiki is awesome, but I also think you tend to be focussed a little
> _too_ much on your pet projects - it used to be OmegaWiki, and now
> it's Betawiki. They're both great projects, but the world does not
> revolve around them.
>
> Mark
>
> On 12/02/2008, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > A lot of work has been done on the localisation of African languages.
> > Amharic, Swahili and Northern Sotho are the first African languages that
> > have 100% of the most relevant messages translated. Other languages like
> > Wolof are also being worked on.
> >
> > When you suggest that we consider the work done on the projects a total
> > waste, you are completely wrong. Recently the localisation of the Zulu
> > Wikipedia has been imported into Betawiki and the numbers for Zulu are
> > 24.49% 13.48% 0.97% 0.26%. Localisation in projects is not effective.
> When
> > language localisation is done in one project, it still needs to be done
> for
> > all other projects while the work done in Betawiki provides a perfect
> start
> > for any needed project localisation.
> >
> > It is only recently that the Amharic localisation for the most relevant
> > messages was completed in Betawiki. The localisation for Swahili has
> been
> > done by someone who has also standardised the terminology used. This
> means
> > that messages in the Swahili wikipedia need to be deleted in order to
> get a
> > uniform terminology used.
> >
> > We do need more people to work on the localisation of so many more
> > languages.. The numbers prove how far off we are from  where we can
> honestly
> > say that we support over 250 languages in Wikipedia.
> >
> > http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Translating:Group_statistics
> >
> > Please help !!
> >
> > Thanks,
> >      GerardM
> >
> > On Feb 12, 2008 3:36 PM, Mark Williamson <node.ue at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > system messages on am.wp have been translated for a while now. I know
> > > you don't see a lot of value in project-level localizations, but
> > > please don't pretend the translations haven't been around in several
> > > African languages, including Amharic, Swahili. and I believe Zulu.
> > >
> > > On 10/02/2008, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Hoi,
> > > > The Wikimedia Foundation does not spend anything on the support of
> > > languages
> > > > per se. What it supports is projects in many languages. It is people
> > > that
> > > > invest in their language and culture.
> > > >
> > > > In the last two Wikimanias it has been said that we, the Wikimedia
> > > > Foundation, want to promote Wikipedia particularly in Africa. It is
> only
> > > in
> > > > 2008 that the first three exclusively African languages have the
> most
> > > > relevant messages in MediaWiki localised. If the WMF has invested in
> > > African
> > > > languages, there has not been much that can be observed that has a
> > > practical
> > > > value. We are not talking about minority languages when we are
> talking
> > > about
> > > > Swahili, Amharic, Igbo, Yoruba.....
> > > >
> > > > The WMF is not investing in languages; it supports projects. These
> > > projects
> > > > can be in whatever language. The WMF supports what comes along and
> has
> > > > sufficient relevance. It is the board that decides what languages
> the
> > > WMF
> > > > supports and as a consequence is given this relevance, the most the
> > > language
> > > > committee does is recommend to allow for a particular project.
> > > >
> > > > So in conclusion, it is *people *that invest in languages. It is the
> > > > Wikimedia Foundation that provides them with a platform to make this
> > > happen.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >     GerardM
> > > >
> > > > On Feb 10, 2008 12:45 PM, Jesse Martin (Pathoschild) <
> > > pathoschild at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > All these comments are very informative, but we're straying from
> the
> > > > > topic. The question is not whether we should deliberately exclude
> > > > > minority languages or cultures, but whether we should consider the
> > > > > preservation of cultures and languages part of the Foundation
> mission.
> > > > > If we don't consider something a goal, that does not mean we work
> > > > > *against* it. For example, our goal is not to promote human rights
> or
> > > > > prevent child soldiery, even though our work benefits those
> causes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Should the Foundation be willing to allocate donated funds and
> > > > > resources to that purpose? What is the mission of the Wikimedia
> > > > > Foundation itself (not of the individual users, who have their own
> > > > > causes and motives)?
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Yours cordially,
> > > > > Jesse Martin (Pathoschild)
> > > > >
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> > >
> > > --
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