[Foundation-l] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Wikimedia-wide global blocking mechanism?

Birgitte SB birgitte_sb at yahoo.com
Fri Feb 1 18:21:39 UTC 2008 

Sorry I failed to send this to the list the first time


--- Birgitte SB <birgitte_sb at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:20:18 -0800 (PST)
> From: Birgitte SB <birgitte_sb at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Fwd: Wikimedia-wide
> global blocking mechanism?
> To: effeietsanders at gmail.com
> 
> I will grant you that it easier in the short-term to
> not use an opt-in system.  However I strongly
> disagree
> that in practice the results would be the same as
> requiring opt-in.  Even the most wonderful idea can
> have disastrous results because of poor
> communications.  I can agree with the principles of
> this idea, but I also also think that such changes
> in
> principle require comprehensible notification.  If
> you
> are not willing to bother with the
> communication(either through annoucements or using
> opt-in), you are setting yourselves up for failure. 
> Personally I think opt-in is more workable than
> blanket notifications in local languages.  Using an
> opt-in system will mean it will take some time for
> the
> system to reach full effect. But you should still
> get
> the feature you desire, and I believe you will save
> yourselves a great deal of difficulty in the long
> run.
>  
> 
> Frankly I am surprised your argument against opt-in
> is
> that it would be easier for the stewards to do
> otherwise.  If someone does not wish to bother
> communicating with small wikis and wikis which have
> trouble with English, I wonder why they ever thought
> to become a steward.
> 
> Birgitte SB
> 
> --- effe iets anders <effeietsanders at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > no or barely a community. Most of the wiki's are
> > small sized, and many
> > show little activity. It is much easier, and would
> > in practice be
> > almost the same, to just automatically opt in
> > projects...
> > 
> > BR, Lodewijk
> > 
> > 2008/2/1, Birgitte SB <birgitte_sb at yahoo.com>:
> > > The problem with opt-out is that a wiki must
> know
> > this
> > > even *exists* in order to opt-out.  So if you
> are
> > > capable of notifing all the village pumps in a
> > > language they can comprehend, this is
> reasonable. 
> > If
> > > you are not capable of that, opt-out is not
> > > reasonable.  If this is mainly for wiki's with
> no
> > > community, then allow stewards to "opt-in" such
> > > wiki's. If they have no community, they will not
> > > object.
> > >
> > > Birgitte SB
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- effe iets anders <effeietsanders at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I agree with your concerns. However, currently
> a
> > > > similar system is
> > > > already active, proxyblocker. This system
> blocks
> > > > some (I dont know how
> > > > many) proxies, detected somewhere in 2005.
> Dont
> > > > worry, no new blocks
> > > > are being added, but some are still in place.
> > The
> > > > user just gets a
> > > > message that he is blocked by proxyblocker. We
> > could
> > > > pick a logical
> > > > name to appear in the message, that would
> point
> > to
> > > > meta. Maybe
> > > > CrosswikiBlocker, or VandalbotBlocker or
> > something.
> > > >
> > > > Opt-in is not workable. This new thing is
> mainly
> > for
> > > > wiki's with no
> > > > community. You can only opt in if you have a
> > > > community. Hence, opt in
> > > > would not work. After all, the stewards mainly
> > have
> > > > to block bots on
> > > > wiki's with no or almost no normal edits. when
> > there
> > > > are people
> > > > around, and they have sysops and a community,
> > they
> > > > can handle it
> > > > themselves generally. However, I would plea
> for
> > > > opt-out.
> > > >
> > > > For the unblocking, I do not think that should
> > be a
> > > > major issue, if we
> > > > would choose for a maximum of a block in the
> > range
> > > > of 1 day-1week. In
> > > > that case, the chance that someone is affected
> > by
> > > > that block, but is
> > > > not the person who was doing the malicious
> > edits, is
> > > > quite slim.
> > > > Furthermore, that person will survive to wait
> a
> > day
> > > > or a week, no big
> > > > harm done. If it proofs to be a major blocker
> > for a
> > > > specific
> > > > community, ie they would only have one IP for
> a
> > > > whole country or
> > > > something, they could opt out.
> > > >
> > > > BR, Eia
> > > >
> > > > 2008/1/31, Birgitte SB
> <birgitte_sb at yahoo.com>:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Andrew Gray <shimgray at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 31/01/2008, Birgitte SB
> > > > <birgitte_sb at yahoo.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is the key problem.  I think that
> > unless
> > > > we
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > capable of notifing all wikis of about
> the
> > > > > > workings of
> > > > > > > this process in a language they are
> > proficient
> > > > > > taking
> > > > > > > blocks Wikimedia wide will cause a lot
> of
> > > > harm.
> > > > > > Of
> > > > > > > course an opt-in system would be very
> > > > workable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Would logging it in the local block-log
> > system
> > > > be an
> > > > > > acceptable method
> > > > > > of notification?
> > > > >
> > > > > I was more thinking first about a
> notification
> > > > that
> > > > > this ability even *exists* before addressing
> > > > > notification individual blocks. However
> > regarding
> > > > > individual blocks what language are you
> > proposing
> > > > the
> > > > > local log entry be written in?
> > > > >
> > > > > The only reasonable way to do this is to
> have
> > the
> > > > log
> > > > > entries be a consistent pre-arranged formula
> > that
> > > > > links to a local page explaining the system
> in
> > the
> > > > > local language.  The best way to ensure that
> > all
> > > > this
> > > > > is set-up is to use an opt-in system that
> > requires
> > > > > these things be set-up before blocks .
> > > > >
> > > > > Anything else means some wiki(s) will wake
> up
> > one
> > > > day
> > > > > to realize there are inexplicable blocks in
> > place.
> > > > > Likely with logs entries they cannot read. 
> > And
> > > > very
> > > > > likely when they start making inquiries no
> one
> > > > will be
> > > > > able to explain what has happened to them
> own
> > > > language
> > > > > leading to further misunderstandings.
> > > > >
> > > > > Seriously make a system to handle these
> blocks
> > and
> > > > > require every wiki wishing to join the
> system
> > file
> > > > a
> > > > > bug and things will go much more smoothly. 
> If
> > the
> > > > > stewards find they are doing tedious manual
> > blocks
> > > > on
> > > > > a certain wiki, they can encourage the that
> > wiki
> > > > to
> > > > > file the bug.
> > > > >
> > > > > Birgitte SB
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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> >
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> 
> 
>      
>
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