[Foundation-l] Sassarese and Sardinian

Mon Sep 10 14:35:30 UTC 2007

I agree, but I have said that in Italy this situation is "normal". The
"Limba Sarda Comune" (translation is "Sardinian common language") is
not a spoken language.

Some "collections" of languages has invented a superlanguage to write
official documents. The "Limba Sarda Comune" is similar to the Romansh
as "status". It has been invented (as Romansh) as official language of
a Region:

"Recentemente (2006), La Regione Autonoma della Sardegna ha
individuato una varietà scritta mediana del sardo, denominata Limba
Sarda Comuna (LSC) da usare nei suoi documenti ufficiali in uscita,
con carattere quindi di coufficialità. La LSC si propone come varietà
intermedia tra le due varietà di sardo letterario già esistenti
(Campidanese e Logudorese)."

The Limba Sarda is a superlanguage, created by the "Regione Autonoma
of Sardinia" combining Campidanese and Logudorese (two of for
sardinian dialects, but the more diffused) and it is used in official
documents. This is the first step to create a language: from dialect
to enrichment of registries.

See here:

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immagine:Lingue_di_Sardegna_mod.gif

the orange parts cover Campidanese and Logudorese.

The Gallurese is the third sardinian dialect closest to Corse
Language, the Sassarese (spoken in a small part of Sardinia) is the
fourth dialect in middle of Limba Sarda and Corse Language.

You understand that is crazy to have a wikipedia in a dialect that has
not a grammar and not a dictionary well defined (Wikipedia is written
and not spoken). Probably the Sardinia Region has had the some problem
and for this reason has invented a "written" language.

Ilario

On 9/10/07, GerardM <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hoi,
> What you write is completely beside the point. At issue is Sardinian and
> Sassarese not Romansh or Lombard. As far as the language committee is
> concerned, there are four Sardinian languages and none of them is the Limba
> Sarda Comune.
>
> We are quite adamant that a language needs recognition as such. There are
> many issues with regard to this kind of recognition but the most relevant
> part is that it is a process that takes time and involves many experts. It
> takes so much time because the standard organisations do their best to get
> it right. Where you describe dialects within a languages, it is not specific
> to Italian languages. The issue of some people trying to come to a "unified"
> language is not unique to Sardinia either.
>
> Thanks,
>     GerardM
>
> On 9/10/07, Ilario Valdelli <valdelli at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Sardinian is a collection of different dialects spoken in Sardinia.
> >
> > The environment is similar to Romansh (which is a collection of
> > different languages as Surmiran, Sursilvan etc.) with the difference
> > that the super-language Romansh is officially recognized and has got a
> > grammar and a dictionary.
> >
> > The problem is generated because it's not clear what is language and
> > what is dialect.
> >
> > Using dialect in some environment like Europa you could have
> > differences between two closest town. The nuances are very strong and
> > the language is not stable (there differences during the years and
> > influences).
> >
> > The Lumbard (lmo.wikipedia.org) for example has got hundred different
> > dialects and not a superlanguage officially recognized, and two
> > different speakers of two lumbard dialect are not completely
> > understandable each other.
> >
> > Ilario
> >
> > On 9/10/07, GerardM <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > There is a Wikipedia in the Sardinian
> > > language<http://sc.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A0gina_printzipale>.
> > > It uses the sc ISO-639-1 code. What was known as Sardinian became srd in
> > the
> > > ISO-639-2. In the ISO-639-3 it was recognised as a
> > > macrolanguage<http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/scope.asp#M>;
> > > practically what was called Sardinian was split into four
> > > languages<http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=srd>
> > > .
> > >
> > > The Italian government has officially recognised the Sardinian language
> > or
> > > the "Limba Sarda Comune". This is in essence a constructed language as
> > it
> > > tries to make one language out of the four "dialects". One of the
> > effects
> > > has been that some people prevent others from writing in one of the four
> > > languages on the sc.wikpedia.
> > >
> > > The language committee of the Wikimedia Foundation has a request to
> > approve
> > > a new language; one of the Sardinian languages, Sassarese with ISO code
> > sdc.
> > >
> > > There are two problems to deal with:
> > >
> > >    - The "Limba Sarda Comune" is not recognised as a language
> > >    - The proponents of the "Limba Sarda Comune" reserve the
> > > sc.wikipediafor their language
> > >
> > > This issue is political. The first thing that I understand when you go
> > to
> > > the official website <http://www.sardegnacultura.it/linguasarda/> is the
> > > notion of identity and indeed, to create one Sardinian identity it would
> > be
> > > instrumental to have a unifying language. However, the map of the
> > Sardinian
> > > languages <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lingue_di_Sardegna_mod.gif>
> > is
> > > clear, the island is divided in four.
> > >
> > > Given that the language committee has as one of its rules that political
> > > arguments are not accepted, there are a few conclusions that we should
> > make.
> > >
> > >    1. Sassarese can have a conditional approval
> > >    2. We urge the proponents of the Limba Sarda Comune to ask for the
> > >    recognition of this newly constructed language from ISO.
> > >
> > > I have had a chat with Debbie
> > > Garside<
> > http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Advisory_board#Debbie_Garside>about
> > > all this, and I understand that it is necessary to apply for an
> > > ISO-639-3 code before an IANA language code is likely to be approved. At
> > > least fifty published works in the Limba Sarda Comune will be required.
> > > Thanks,
> > >      GerardM
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> >
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