[Foundation-l] Wikimania 2008 will happen in Alexandria, Egypt

[Jason Safoutin]

>
> foundation-l-request at lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
>> Jason Safoutin ha scritto:
>>   
>>> They are not willing to build a diverse culture which included 
>>> homosexuals. 
>>>     
>> Tell it to egyptrian LGBT community. The chances that things change,  in Egypt  or elsewere, are higher if someone goes there. Nothing will change if you keep on complaining from your safe american home.  
>>     
if you expect a bunch of Wikimedians to change the government, then you 
are putting them at risk of being arrested and or killed in this 
co7untry. Especially the homosexuals. It is not our job to change the 
world and we are not activists of a government. If they don't want gay 
people there then plain and simple: We are not welcome there.
>>> Wikimania is not a conference to use for political objectives. We are 
>>> not politicians or lawmakers. If you want to influence people who wish 
>>> NOT to be influenced, do it on your own time. 
>>>     
>> Sorry to contraddict you but Wikimania *IS* political. All the things we are doing here are political. Stop looking at Wikimania as if it is just a cool party!  
>>
>>     
No its not. It has nothing to do with politics. And if it is then 
Wikimania needs to be completely revamped. We are not crusaders or 
"freedom fighters". If you want to be political, then run for your 
government. this is a conference not an election.
>>> Its not "personal safety" 
>>> of just homosexuals, but EVERYONE. 
>>>     
>> Personal safety of EVERYONE is at risk in Alexandria or in NYC, if you are a mindless traveller.
>> As an example, an eterosexual staring too intensively at the ass of someone else girlfriend can get into trouble everywhere in the world.
>>
>> Roberto (Snowdog)  
>>
>>     
Last I heard, the last terror attack in the US was 2001. Now how many 
have there been in Egypt or in close proximity to it? Read the links in 
all the mails that have been going around here.

Jason Safoutin
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 03:34:06 -0700
>> From: Delirium <delirium at hackish.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Wikimania 2008 will happen in Alexandria,
>> 	Egypt
>> To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
>> 	<foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Message-ID: <47109F1E.2070107 at hackish.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> Jason Safoutin wrote:
>>   
>>> foundation-l-request at lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
>>>   
>>>     
>>>> David, thanks for opening this discussion; it's an important and necessary one.
>>>>
>>>> I was not on the Wikimania jury, but I endorse its decision.
>>>>
>>>> To me, WMF is first and foremost about spreading knowledge, across
>>>> boundaries of language & culture. This means we should not isolate
>>>> countries that violate human rights through reactionary policies. We
>>>> need to engage them on a higher level, and confront them with the open
>>>> & diverse culture of sharing that we are building.
>>>>   
>>>>     
>>>>       
>>> They are not willing to build a diverse culture which included 
>>> homosexuals. So far I see nothing open and diverse about their 
>>> government or the way they treat homosexuals and women. If they wanted 
>>> us there, then they would welcome us and they do not welcome 
>>> homosexuals. Its not about policy. Its about whether or not a group is 
>>> being singled out.
>>>   
>>>     
>>
>> The "open and diverse culture" being discussed is *ours*, not that of a 
>> particular government. We'd like to include as many people and 
>> viewpoints as possible, and all locations have tradeoffs when it comes 
>> to that. Arabs are, worldwide, a large ethnic/cultural/linguistic group, 
>> but so far pretty underrepresented at our own international gatherings 
>> --- boycotting all Arab countries as conference locations would not be a 
>> very good way of solving that particular diversity problem! Reasonable 
>> people disagree over how exactly to weigh all the factors that go into 
>> choosing a location, including all the pros/cons of the sort of 
>> participant diversity that a particular location would or wouldn't 
>> promote. Having it in Alexandria promotes some sorts of diversity and 
>> hurts other sorts. I've personally been pushing for cost-accessibility 
>> of locations to enable wider grassroots participation, but that's 
>> obviously not the only important factor either.
>>
>> -Mark
>>
>>   
I never said anything about boycotting anything let alone any Arab 
country. The important factor needs to be who the Wikimedians are and 
then support all of them. Not a select group. Last I checked, we are as 
equal as anyone on any WMF project. And that needs to be taken into 
consideration...not ignored. Also...Homosexuals might even be a bigger 
diverse group than Arabic people. Cannot single any one group out. Period.

Grassroots? Again...take the political agenda somewhere else. Wikimania 
is not a political party or an election. If it is...then there is a 
massive problem.

Jason Safoutin