[Foundation-l] [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2008 will happen in Alexandria, Egypt

[Dan Rosenthal]

Hoi,
Another beautiful proclamation from GerardM that is as nonsequiter  
and irrelevant as it is asinine.
On Oct 12, 2007, at 5:16 AM, GerardM wrote:

> Hoi,
> Make a distinction. I have never seen a "confederate flag" at any  
> of the
> Wikimanias.
> So at the event everyone is very much welcome.

Nobody ever said there was. Why hello Mr. Strawman?

> The aim of a
> Wikimania is to bring people from all over the world together to  
> talk wiki,
> wiki in any shape or form. It is a Wikimedia Foundation event so it  
> is very
> much MediaWiki and WMF projects that is on the agenda.
>

They can't do that from jail, or from a hospital can they?


> The aim of the Wikimedia Foundation is to bring information to the  
> world.
> This means all of the world, not just those parts of the world  
> where Western
> people feel comfortable. Bringing free npov information to the  
> world is what
> we aim to achieve by going to all parts of the world. From an  
> organisation's
> point of view all the reset is secondary.
>

So it's the message, rather than the convention attendees' safety,  
that is the priority? I'm sure the WMF doesn't agree with that.  
Please don't imply that is the way that they think.

> Yes, it is best if everyone feels comfortable in coming to a  
> Wikimania. When
> Wikimania goes to the Middle East, it has not gone to Africa  
> proper. When
> Anthere says in her speech that Africa should be on our agenda, it  
> is a step
> towards Africa. We do not talk explicitly about many things. The  
> reason is
> imho simple; it is not what we are there for. This is what others  
> deal with.
>

It is not a matter of whether women and gays feel comfortable there.  
It's a matter of whether they can be safe there and not imprisoned,  
harassed, or assaulted.


> I am unhappy that people find that they are unable to go to Egypt.  
> I am
> extremely unhappy that this discussion is happening after a  
> decision; a
> decision that  has been made and is final.

Apparently you missed the part of where people are upset about the  
way the decision was made. Also, please note that several people  
addressed the safety and LGBT concerns DURING the bid process and  
were told that they were trolling, or told to stop asking questions.  
In one case, instead of responding to a direct question about  
Alexandria's safety concerns, their bid team completely ignored the  
subject and instead attacked Atlanta. The fact that this whole  
argument was never even given due weight is why we are bringing it up.

> What upsets me greatly is that
> the quality of the arguments about this issue, particularly about how
> foreigners are treated in Egypt, is of such a quality that the  
> argument
> would be likely deleted in Wikipedia. We are talking largely about  
> hearsay
> and the arguments of there not being a problem are at least as  
> strong and
> better documented.
>

Bullshit. We've sourced our arguments with valid sources. I believe I  
sent out an email with 5 or 6 of them, a few days ago. If you choose  
to ignore them that is your choice; do not deign to look down upon us  
mortals and call us silly little trolls.


> Thanks,
>     GerardM
>
>
>

Thanks,

Dan