[Foundation-l] 09-f9-...

Wed May 9 10:48:58 UTC 2007

On 5/8/07, Christophe Henner <christophe.henner at gmail.com> wrote:
> following a discussion with phe on IRC, I don't see the interest of
> giving this very number BUT if there's one, why not kivinf a wrong key
> and saying something like "The illegal number was an hexadecimal key
> looking like 04 e6...".
>
> Wouldn't it be ok ?
>
> On 09/05/07, Christophe Henner <christophe.henner at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Heuu I don't think speed of light has the same interest as a key ;)
> >
> > Ok let's make it easy, what brings this number to the article?
> >
> > On 09/05/07, Todd Allen <toddmallen at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 5/8/07, Christophe Henner <christophe.henner at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Is this number so important in the human knowledge that it HAS TO be
> > > > on wikipedia? I'm afraid no.
> > > >
> > > > Yann, just remind that free means "under a free documentation license
> > > > such as the Free Documentation License written by the Free Software
> > > > Foundation Inc. at http://www.fsf.org " and not "do whatever you
> > > > want".
> > > >
> > > > This means we have to follow the law, whatever the law is, we have not
> > > > to cross the line. Why Wikipedia would allow itself to cross this
> > > > line? There's no reasons, this number is not that important to the
> > > > project so it needs to be written. It's anecdotic.
> > > >
> > > > I'm affraid Wikipedia is not the good place to defend our opinions,
> > > > this key number is not encyclopedix, I don't really see why it should
> > > > either be on Wikipedia or have its own article.
> > > >
> > > > About Wikinews, you can make a full, complete and interressant news
> > > > about this without giving the number.
> > > >
> > > > So imo the questions is "Can we do, if the subject is encyclopedix, an
> > > > article about this kind of number without writing them?" yes. What
> > > > informations does this number brings to the article? None.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 09/05/07, Yann Forget <yann at forget-me.net> wrote:
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > So OK, various knowledgeable people said this number is illegal. Adding
> > > > > it to non related articles is not appropriate.
> > > > >
> > > > > Other have made quite strange and disproportionate comparisons. Some
> > > > > talk about credit card fraud. I can't imagine what this serious crime
> > > > > has to do with publish a number which can't be used alone as it is. We
> > > > > don't get free DVDs with this key alone. Some talk about child
> > > > > pornography. Should I remember them that child pornography is injury
> > > > > done to a child. Where is the injury here? If anything, this is more
> > > > > injury to our freedom that anything else.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anthony a écrit :
> > > > > > But that raises a question.  Is it illegal for a Wikimedia dev to add
> > > > > > the number into the spam blacklist, or for Wikimedia to store the
> > > > > > number in the spam blacklist, or for a dev to send an email to another
> > > > > > dev with the number in it, for the purpose of telling them to set up
> > > > > > the spam blacklist?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How about the block log?  There are users blocked that have the number
> > > > > > in their username.  Is the block log now illegal?
> > > > >
> > > > > These are interesting questions. I think it shows how absurd is the ban
> > > > > on this number.
> > > > >
> > > > > > But I agree that it's silly to say it's OK to distribute the
> > > > > > information simply because it can be expressed as a number.
> > > > >
> > > > > That's exactly what I ask. A number can't patented. A number can't be
> > > > > copyrighted. A number is just a code. To get useful information, you
> > > > > need to know how to decode the information hidden in the number. So it
> > > > > seems to me that a number alone is not usefull information (except as a
> > > > > pure mathematical object) unless you know how to get the information out
> > > > > of it. So where is the limit?
> > > > >
> > > > > Further more, a ban on a plain number is completely absurd as it can
> > > > > always be included in another number, or it can be broken up in a
> > > > > formula. So to ban a number, you have to ban all numbers and all formulas.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is 09-f9-... + 1 illegal?
> > > > > Is x * y * ... + ... + z (= 09-f9-...) illegal?
> > > > >
> > > > > I hope that people start to realise how the discussion stands on the head.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think that we are making dangerous compromise with one of our basic
> > > > > principles: freedom, we are impairing our capability to write a free
> > > > > encyclopedia. I am afraid that if we can't stand up for this useless and
> > > > > obsolete key, we will make more serious compromise with our basic
> > > > > principles when we will face bigger challenges.
> > > > >
> > > > > So we can't write this number in a news or a Wikipedia article about
> > > > > this affair. So do we change our projects because the law prevent us to
> > > > > do so? Ok, the objective of Wikipedia is not to change the law. But
> > > > > where is the limit?
> > > > >
> > > > > Ultimately I would like to know what people think about the limit we
> > > > > have and we give to our freedom.
> > > > >
> > > > > Todd Allen a écrit :
> > > > > > What about publishing the number in an article that has everything to
> > > > > > do with it?
> > > > >
> > > > > Nobody has answered this which seems to me the most interesting question
> > > > > of this thread.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry for my broken English.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Yann
> > > > > --
> > > > > http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence
> > > > > http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net
> > > > > http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclopédie libre
> > > > > http://fr.wikisource.org/ | Bibliothèque libre
> > > > > http://wikilivres.info | Documents libres
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > schiste
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> > > >
> > >
> > > I must disagree. The number itself brings -specificity-. We don't say
> > > the speed of light is "really really fast", we provide a numerical
> > > value. We don't say the sun is "very far away from the Earth", we
> > > provide a numerical value. We don't say a mole is "a whole lot of
> > > particles", we say what Avogadro's number actually is. In keeping with
> > > that, we don't say that the HD-DVD flap was over "a hexadecimal
> > > number", -we specify what that number is-.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Freedom is the right to know that 2+2=4. From this all else follows.
> > >
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> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > schiste
> >
>
>
> --
> schiste
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>

Why would we deliberately give false information? It's pretty obvious
AACS has already let this one go, otherwise there would've been a
flurry of C&D's by now. We're running from a phantom.

-- 
Freedom is the right to know that 2+2=4. From this all else follows.