[Foundation-l] Censorship: Speedy deletion of porn articles

[GerardM]

Hoi,
I have no problem with Pokemon articles, they are cuddly, friendly and
articles on individual characters are allowed on some Wikipedias and not on
others. I could have chosen characters from Star Wars to make my point as
well,

There is no reason at all why all subjects that are permitted on the English
Wikipedia should be permitted on another project. The notions of the English
Wikipedia are not universal. Individual Pokemon articles et al are denied on
the German Wikipedia and when individual people and or movies notable in the
porn industry are not permitted on a particular project, I have no problem
with it at all.

There are much more important issues to do with censorship on Wikipedia
projects. On some projects articles on the holocaust are severely censored
because "it is not an accepted fact that it happened the way you have it
portrayed". This means that articles, even featured articles of the English
Wikipedia associated with the second world war, cannot be literally
translated into these particular language versions of Wikipedia.

In many cultures the porn industry is not noted nor is porn permitted.
Insistence on having it included in Wikipedia is against the laws and morals
of such countries. I stand by my position that a comparison with the Pokemon
characters is valid; a Wikipedia article does not have to allow the
inclusion of all of them.

PS I am not outraged, I think your premise is wrong.

Thanks,
    GerardM

On 3/8/07, Yonatan Horan <yonatanh at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I strongly resent your reply. It seems like you have some similar issues
> with Pokemon articles and that's the reason you lashed out the way you
> did.
> The reason I raised this issue on this mailing list is not because of some
> misplaced sense of outrage. The incident I was talking about took place
> two
> months ago and the only reason I mentioned it was to fully disclose any
> relevant information so other people don't come on here later on and say
> that the only reason I'm bringing this issue to the attention of others is
> due to a vendetta against the Hebrew Wikipedia or something of the sort.
> This isn't about me trying to provoke anything. It's about a certain group
> of admins ignoring the fact that speedy deletion of porn articles was
> never
> passed as a policy on hewp (and there is more than one sysop who can
> attest
> to this). As I said previously, I don't have any particular interest in
> porn
> and the fact that I've never edited an article that has anything to do
> with
> this topic on the english wikipedia supports that. Ron Jeremy and Jenna
> Jameson are both notable enough to have their own article on any
> wikipedia,
> whether it be English, Hebrew or Malaysian. Attempts have been made to
> resolve this issue "in-house" have failed, otherwise I wouldn't have
> posted
> it to this mailing list. I can't find the specific meta page at the moment
> but it isn't English Wikipedia only policy that wikipedia isn't censored.
> If
> the german wikipedia decided to delete all articles regarding Nazi
> Germany,
> etc. would you have reacted the same way? Or maybe if the Chinese
> Wikipedia
> decided to ban all articles on the issue of democracy? I hope you rethink
> your response and maybe try not to treat me as a troll when I really am
> not
> one.
>
> -Yonatan
>
> On 3/8/07, GerardM <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hoi,
> > When you think that people are interested in what can be perceived as a
> > provocation, you are wrong. What makes you think that details about porn
> > is
> > of sufficient relevance to warrant an article? You have to appreciate
> that
> > some Wikipedias are quite happy to even disallow articles about Pokomon
> > characters. Now Pokomon creatures are much more educational. They are
> the
> > staple diet of our youth.
> >
> > Danny is a WMF employee, I believe he has more important things to do
> than
> > to indulge your misplaced sense of outrage.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >    GerardM
> >
> > On 3/8/07, Yonatan Horan <yonatanh at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > It has recently (about two months ago) come to my attention that
> > articles
> > > on
> > > the Hebrew Wikipedia are speedy deleted. I translated the Jenna
> Jameson
> > > article from the English Wikipedia and it was very quickly speedy
> > deleted
> > > and I was indefinitely blocked due to being a sockpuppet of some guy
> (of
> > > course no checkuser request was done). By the way, I don't
> particularly
> > > like
> > > porn articles or anything of the sort; in fact, I don't believe I've
> > ever
> > > edited a porn article on the enwp which I'm very active on. After a
> few
> > > days
> > > (during which I complained on Danny's enwp talk page and thus got the
> > > attention of a Hebrew Wikipedia admin and later spoke on the phone
> with
> > > another admin from hewp) I was unblocked. I'm guessing there have
> > probably
> > > been other people who just gave up after they were banned and didn't
> > > return.
> > >
> > > The situation is basically that if a user who isn't well-known on the
> > hewp
> > > (someone outside of a group of about 100 users) creates such an
> article
> > he
> > > will probably be perm-banned and if anyone else does so, the article
> > will
> > > probably just be speedy deleted. No rule has been passed on the Hebrew
> > > Wikipedia regarding this and even if it had been passed, it would be
> in
> > > violation of WMF (?) guidelines as Wikipedia is not censored. Some
> claim
> > > that a rule has been passed but many admins disagree with this. The
> > "vote"
> > > was passed about two years ago and had 10-20 participants. In addition
> > to
> > > this, the vote came at a time when the Hebrew Wikipedia was repeatedly
> > > vandalized by a certain user and many of the voters supposedly for the
> > > banning of porn articles referred only to this specific case (this is
> > > supported by their comments on the page).
> > >
> > > By the way, just so nobody corrects me, on the Hebrew Wikipedia *there
> > are
> > > votes* since consensus is hardly ever reached and the total needed to
> > pass
> > > a
> > > vote is a ridiculous 55%. Anyway, despite all the above, a few admins
> > have
> > > said that they will speedy delete any porn articles created on the
> > Hebrew
> > > Wikipedia. Currently there are a few porn articles which are about the
> > > movie
> > > Deep Throat and two other articles that I don't recall at the moment.
> > This
> > > is a foundation issue because the situation right now is effectively
> > > censorship of articles that some people feel do not have a place on
> the
> > > wikipedia. I know I will probably have those who disagree with me be
> > > notified of this discussion at some point at which point the
> slandering
> > > will
> > > begin and I will be called a "snitch" and possibly other more colorful
> > > terms
> > > so I ask ahead of time for this discussion to remain civil. Although I
> > > hate
> > > to burden Danny, who probably has a lot of more important things to
> do,
> > he
> > > is the only one who speaks both Hebrew and English and could take care
> > of
> > > this issue since he is obviously a person trusted by most. Anyway I
> > think
> > > I've written more than enough on an issue that should be pretty
> > > straightforward, that is, that wikipedia is not censored.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Yonatan
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