[Foundation-l] [foundation-l] #wikipedia changes

Sun Jun 17 15:43:45 UTC 2007

I agree that -social will not immeadiately be popular. However, I
believe it will grow to be so: #wikimedia-social (the old one) was
split off when those in it were asked (nothing to do with me) to keep
#wikipedia more on-topic and it now has a close community. We can
create that too.

I do see what you mean about politics and popular culture. Thing is,
this can get far more than just the Wikipedia articles. When something
starts as a result of the articles and is mainly about them, fair
enough. If you have a situation where someone says "Hey, let's discuss
xyz politician, he has a Wikipedia article" then that isn't
appropriate.

Sean

On 17/06/07, Peter Halasz <email at pengo.org> wrote:
> A large part of the chat in #wikipedia is (or has been) politics and
> popular culture (e.g. family guy). As these topics are covered by
> Wikipedia, and the articles often quoted in discussions, can you state
> clearly how such conversations will be handled, as I am confused about
> this. Please realise that #wikipedia-social will not be popular --
> It's rarely possible to have multiple people agree to to move to a
> different channel, especially mid-conversation. Thanks.
>
> Peter Halasz
> user:pengo
>
> On 6/17/07, Sean Whitton <sean at silentflame.com> wrote:
> > It was known that Mark was going on holiday which is one of the
> > reasons we wanted a deputy at this early stage. I totally understand
> > your concerns about multiple agendas here, which is why I'm sticking
> > around quite heavily to help everyone.
> >
> > Our aim is not to make #wikipedia a help-only channel, and the idea is
> > to definately keep -en-help as it is. I think though -en-help is very
> > much a channel for new users, and #wikipedia can be for more complex
> > stuff. However, I'm not saying new users shouldn't be welcomed and
> > helped in #wikipedia because the other thing is the help bots report
> > to -en-help, which is one of the main reasons it exists.
> >
> > Also, #wikipedia-social is for situations where you say to yourself
> > "hmm, what did other people think of that film I just watched?" rather
> > than "hmm, I wonder if someguy has been busy lately, his e-mails are
> > being replied to slowly" which would be fine in #wikipedia, if you see
> > what I mean.
> >
> > It's important to remember that the guidelines are not called rules
> > because things like this are so hard to define. We're allowing some
> > flexibility in this area with their enforcement.
> >
> > Sean
> >
> > On 17/06/07, Gurch <matthew.britton at btinternet.com> wrote:
> > > Tangotango wrote:
> > > > Because it hasn't been mentioned by anybody yet, I wanted to point
> > > > out that #wikipedia-en-help (formerly #wikipedia-bootcamp) is the
> > > > perfect channel for new Wikipedians who need help (hence the name).
> > > >
> > > > While this channel does, for some reason, seem to be forgotten by the
> > > > mainstream Wikipedia IRC community (which may or may not be a bad
> > > > thing), it is extremely well-advertised on the Help desk, on the New
> > > > Contributors' Help Page, and on {{helpme}} messages. It is also
> > > > served by Bjelleklang's Java IRC client on the toolserver (again very
> > > > well-advertised in the pages quoted above).
> > > >
> > > > Users in the channel are on the most part very friendly towards
> > > > newbies, and even basic questions are bound to get responses from one
> > > > or more helpers within seconds.
> > > >
> > > > While I do not exactly condone the idea of compartmentalizing IRC
> > > > channels for particular purposes (especially with channels that have
> > > > seemingly similar topics, like #wikipedia, #wikipedia-social, and
> > > > #wikimedia-social), #wikipedia-en-help *is* a safe haven for newbies
> > > > where they can get help without getting ignored (or even worse, being
> > > > told that they are in The Wrong Channel) by the masses of seasoned
> > > > yet not-newbie-oriented Wikipedians.
> > > >
> > > > So if you do find a newbie in need of help, or if there are any
> > > > opportunities where you recommend a channel for a newbie in need of
> > > > help, please don't forget #wikipedia-en-help.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > Tangotango
> > >
> > > I referred to that channel (in fact both names, I had forgotten they
> > > were the same thing) in discussion with Mark earlier, and I think I
> > > mentioned it in passing here. It would appear that Sean and Mark wish
> > > for #wikipedia to replace those channels (how they intend to do that, I
> > > am not entirely sure).
> > >
> > > I must reiterate that in the past, newcomers in #wikipedia *have*
> > > generally recieved useful help quickly, and the only times they are
> > > usually referred to another channel is if they specifically request it,
> > > don't seem to have too good a grasp of English (in which case one of the
> > > language-edition-specific channels is likely to be of more use), or want
> > > to discuss a project other than Wikipedia.
> > >
> > > It is *very rare* to see a new user with an honest question ignored in
> > > #wikipedia. (If anything, some people are too helpful, and try to act
> > > helpfully toward obvious trolls, which isn't particularly useful).
> > >
> > > That's not to say I don't agree with the need for a dedicated help
> > > channel, because I do. #wikipedia-en-help seems to be used by the same
> > > people who answer helpdesk requests, and I'm sure they are every bit as
> > > good - and probably better - at answering questions as the rest of us.
> > > What they think of the new ops' intention to make #wikipedia into the
> > > "help channel", I'm not sure.
> > >
> > > I should also reiterate that #wikipedia-social is a completely new
> > > channel that Mark and Sean have just created, with the intention of
> > > removing off-topic conversation from #wikipedia altogether. So I
> > > wouldn't agree tha thte two channels have "seemingly similar topics".
> > >
> > > Mark now tells me he's gone on holiday and left Dmcdevit in charge, and
> > > that he no longer has any control over anything. Much as I respect
> > > Dmcdevit, I fear this may lead to yet another interpretion of the new
> > > rules, and only add to the confusion.
> > >
> > > - Gurch
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > —Sean Whitton (seanw)
> > <sean at silentflame.com>
> > http://seanwhitton.com/
> >
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> >
>
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-- 
—Sean Whitton (seanw)
<sean at silentflame.com>
http://seanwhitton.com/