[Foundation-l] [foundation-l] #wikipedia changes

[Peter Halasz]

A large part of the chat in #wikipedia is (or has been) politics and
popular culture (e.g. family guy). As these topics are covered by
Wikipedia, and the articles often quoted in discussions, can you state
clearly how such conversations will be handled, as I am confused about
this. Please realise that #wikipedia-social will not be popular --
It's rarely possible to have multiple people agree to to move to a
different channel, especially mid-conversation. Thanks.

Peter Halasz
user:pengo

On 6/17/07, Sean Whitton <sean at silentflame.com> wrote:
> It was known that Mark was going on holiday which is one of the
> reasons we wanted a deputy at this early stage. I totally understand
> your concerns about multiple agendas here, which is why I'm sticking
> around quite heavily to help everyone.
>
> Our aim is not to make #wikipedia a help-only channel, and the idea is
> to definately keep -en-help as it is. I think though -en-help is very
> much a channel for new users, and #wikipedia can be for more complex
> stuff. However, I'm not saying new users shouldn't be welcomed and
> helped in #wikipedia because the other thing is the help bots report
> to -en-help, which is one of the main reasons it exists.
>
> Also, #wikipedia-social is for situations where you say to yourself
> "hmm, what did other people think of that film I just watched?" rather
> than "hmm, I wonder if someguy has been busy lately, his e-mails are
> being replied to slowly" which would be fine in #wikipedia, if you see
> what I mean.
>
> It's important to remember that the guidelines are not called rules
> because things like this are so hard to define. We're allowing some
> flexibility in this area with their enforcement.
>
> Sean
>
> On 17/06/07, Gurch <matthew.britton at btinternet.com> wrote:
> > Tangotango wrote:
> > > Because it hasn't been mentioned by anybody yet, I wanted to point
> > > out that #wikipedia-en-help (formerly #wikipedia-bootcamp) is the
> > > perfect channel for new Wikipedians who need help (hence the name).
> > >
> > > While this channel does, for some reason, seem to be forgotten by the
> > > mainstream Wikipedia IRC community (which may or may not be a bad
> > > thing), it is extremely well-advertised on the Help desk, on the New
> > > Contributors' Help Page, and on {{helpme}} messages. It is also
> > > served by Bjelleklang's Java IRC client on the toolserver (again very
> > > well-advertised in the pages quoted above).
> > >
> > > Users in the channel are on the most part very friendly towards
> > > newbies, and even basic questions are bound to get responses from one
> > > or more helpers within seconds.
> > >
> > > While I do not exactly condone the idea of compartmentalizing IRC
> > > channels for particular purposes (especially with channels that have
> > > seemingly similar topics, like #wikipedia, #wikipedia-social, and
> > > #wikimedia-social), #wikipedia-en-help *is* a safe haven for newbies
> > > where they can get help without getting ignored (or even worse, being
> > > told that they are in The Wrong Channel) by the masses of seasoned
> > > yet not-newbie-oriented Wikipedians.
> > >
> > > So if you do find a newbie in need of help, or if there are any
> > > opportunities where you recommend a channel for a newbie in need of
> > > help, please don't forget #wikipedia-en-help.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Tangotango
> >
> > I referred to that channel (in fact both names, I had forgotten they
> > were the same thing) in discussion with Mark earlier, and I think I
> > mentioned it in passing here. It would appear that Sean and Mark wish
> > for #wikipedia to replace those channels (how they intend to do that, I
> > am not entirely sure).
> >
> > I must reiterate that in the past, newcomers in #wikipedia *have*
> > generally recieved useful help quickly, and the only times they are
> > usually referred to another channel is if they specifically request it,
> > don't seem to have too good a grasp of English (in which case one of the
> > language-edition-specific channels is likely to be of more use), or want
> > to discuss a project other than Wikipedia.
> >
> > It is *very rare* to see a new user with an honest question ignored in
> > #wikipedia. (If anything, some people are too helpful, and try to act
> > helpfully toward obvious trolls, which isn't particularly useful).
> >
> > That's not to say I don't agree with the need for a dedicated help
> > channel, because I do. #wikipedia-en-help seems to be used by the same
> > people who answer helpdesk requests, and I'm sure they are every bit as
> > good - and probably better - at answering questions as the rest of us.
> > What they think of the new ops' intention to make #wikipedia into the
> > "help channel", I'm not sure.
> >
> > I should also reiterate that #wikipedia-social is a completely new
> > channel that Mark and Sean have just created, with the intention of
> > removing off-topic conversation from #wikipedia altogether. So I
> > wouldn't agree tha thte two channels have "seemingly similar topics".
> >
> > Mark now tells me he's gone on holiday and left Dmcdevit in charge, and
> > that he no longer has any control over anything. Much as I respect
> > Dmcdevit, I fear this may lead to yet another interpretion of the new
> > rules, and only add to the confusion.
> >
> > - Gurch
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
>
> --
> —Sean Whitton (seanw)
> <sean at silentflame.com>
> http://seanwhitton.com/
>
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