[Foundation-l] This is not an Advertisement @ pgunn

Tue Jan 2 07:09:26 UTC 2007

For the record, I'm asking about an apology for the poor communication,
because that -was- rather minimal communication prior to the ad.

Yes David Strauss, I understand the financial cost -- it takes more money
than I will probably ever have at once. To this effect I've donated hundreds
of dollars to Wikimedia to help it keep afloat.

As Greg Maxwell addressed, advertisers seldom comment on the content. That's
great! Even *if* we tell them to go away, we'll just find new advertisers
'cause we're top 20, baby!

As long as Wikimedia stays devoted to its true goals, I will be content.
Advertising is not that pleasant; maybe it'll be necessary. Before we have
to resort to that, we have to find something better. To that note, Greg,
when will that list of images be finished?

On 1/2/07, David Strauss <david at fourkitchens.com> wrote:
>
> Though I'm glad you're sticking around, I'm sorry to hear your
> discontent with current fundraising practices. Unfortunately, Wikipedia
> (and other Wikimedia projects) now require significant money to run,
> *far* more money than ever before:
>
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/What_we_need_the_money_for
>
> Maybe I'm just cynical, but I don't believe in genuine altruism. People,
> charities, and companies give money for all sorts of reasons. A few
> individuals might get their kicks giving anonymously, but they're not in
> the majority. In most cases, the recipient of the donation is
> responsible for giving the payload: public recognition that the donor is
> a good person, charity, or company. Even the hard-hearted robber barons
> of the 19th century eventually succumbed to a need for acceptance by
> offsetting their misdeeds with visible, public charity.
>
> The more we limit recognition opportunities, the more we limit potential
> donors. I think the limits you suggest will not provide sufficient
> support for Wikimedia.
>
> Fortunately, recognition doesn't conflict with the real goal of
> Wikimedia: spreading free knowledge. There's no foreseeable slippery
> slope to sponsor control of Wikimedia's content. I've worked in
> publishing for over seven years, and I have yet to hear an advertiser
> comment on content. I'm also on the board of directors for Texas Student
> Publications, possibly the largest college media organization in the
> world. I've been with Texas Student Publications for three years, and I
> have never heard an advertiser request a content change. Finally, *even
> if* a sponsor requested a content change, Wikimedia is far more likely
> to tell them to buzz off if Wikimedia is financially healthy. The key is
> diversity of sponsorship, not restriction of it.
>
> The other side to public matching is encouragement of community
> donations. Community donors want to feel good about helping Wikimedia,
> and having a visible matching sponsor lets them know that they'll have
> twice the effect. I think recognizing the matching sponsor actually
> amplifies that effect. Knowing who matches the donation makes it more
> tangible.
>
> But despite my respect for your objection, I don't think anyone owes you
> an apology.
>
> David
>
> James Hare wrote:
> > We need to abandon the method of
> > let's-brag-about-our-matching-donors-in-the-god-damn-sitenotice as soon
> as
> > possible. It IS possible to thank them, but that's just too damn
> > advertisalicious.
> >
> > We should also focus more on lobbying the kinds of folk that would not
> be
> > interested in being advertised, like Mr. Anonymo earlier in the
> fundraiser
> > or the UN.
> >
> > If anything, do it for poor Improv here. We lost Improv because of
> money.
> > That's pathetic.
> >
> > "It's not an advertisement, it's a thank you notice!" In other words...
> it's
> > not the truth :|, it's The Truth! :)
> >
> > I am not leaving because my help is needed and I have a
> 1,000,000,000-year
> > contract to serve, but you really need to reconsider ways of getting
> > cash-money that don't involve pissing off the entire community. Not to
> > mention, that was real shit communication on your part, Wikimedia.
> >
> > Let me know when you're ready to apologize.
> >
> > On 1/2/07, Walter van Kalken <walter at vankalken.net> wrote:
> >> Thanks for all you have done for the projects and good luck in your
> >> further endeavours!
> >>
> >> Waerth
> >>
> >>> I reply specifically to Brion Vibber's message here:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2006-December/012848.html
> >>>
> >>> I find it very unfortunate that Brion characterises
> >>> people like me, who have been on the project for many
> >>> years, as being uncaring about our values. I care deeply
> >>> about the project, and feel that accepting advertising,
> >>> whether it be for brand identity or a specific product,
> >>> as unacceptable. The Spanish wikipedia and the many users
> >>> who have put userboxen against advertisements (as ironic
> >>> as that is) on their userpages should've taught Brion
> >>> (and others involved) that the values of the community
> >>> *do* have a substantial number of people who will never
> >>> accept this kind of thing. After reading some of the other
> >>> comments on this list and chatting with a few folks, I
> >>> understand that my concerns, while considered, will not be
> >>> addressed. To me, Wikipedia (and related projects) are and
> >>> must be noncommercial if I am to be involved - it is impossible
> >>> to honestly educate with one hand while waving a billboard
> >>> with the other.
> >>>
> >>> I greatly regret the wrong turn the community
> >>> has made here, for it is not something I will live with and
> >>> stay. Y'all may want to keep a close eye on the Spanish
> >>> Wikipedia. Goodbye, all. You may do what you wish with my
> >>> accounts - I have left a note on my LSS project (to summarise
> >>> the foundation lists) that a new project head is needed.
> >>>
> >>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/LSS
> >>>
> >>> If y'all want to see it continue, someone needs to pick up
> >>> the ball. Someone should take care of any OTRS replies I get.
> >>>
> >>> It's actually, other than the end, been a pleasure working
> >>> with many of you - if any of you want to keep in touch,
> >>> I'm just an e-mail or IM away. It reminds me of the last
> >>> big social project I was on and how it slowly came to an end
> >>> through commercial entanglement after being acquired:
> >>>
> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NoWonder
> >>>
> >>> Goodbye.
> >>>
> >>> ---
> >>> Pat Gunn
> >>> mod: csna, bmcm, bmco, cooa, cona, clpd, coom
> >>> http://dachte.org
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> foundation-l mailing list
> >>> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> >>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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