[Foundation-l] A dangerous precedent

Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen at gmail.com
Fri Dec 28 18:12:51 UTC 2007

You are so full of your own righteousness and you only find fault in others;
you do not acknowledge that you are going about it completely in the wrong
way. Your opinion is what counts and the notion that an article without a
sentence can be informative is impossible to you. You are of the opinion
that the Interwiki system is undermined by what you indicate as the Volapuk
"articles" but you provide no arguments for this opinion whatsoever; it is
an article of faith, your faith.

When you state that there are unchangeable rules, you do not indicate what
these rules might be. I know about NPOV, I know about freely licensed
content and software but it escapes me what your "unchangeable" rule might
be. In your mail you refer to an exchange with Smeira; it is completely
unclear what is said, you do not provide an argument.

Daniel, you are going about it the wrong way. You assume and it makes an ass
out of u and me. Your idea of what Wikipedia is is not shared, this is
something that you recognise, but you then create a confrontation the only
result are victims. What you should do is try to understand what the Volapuk
Wikipedia, and for that matter similar projects, aims to achieve. Their
strategy can easily be enhanced, become part of the solution and at the same
time many of the more outrageous automatically created articles are likely
to end up deleted. Get rid of this ridiculous notion of superiority we
behave like wikimedians should by engaging each other in a positive way and
fix the issues that exist.


On Dec 28, 2007 6:15 PM, Daniel Arnold <arnomane at gmx.de> wrote:

> Am Freitag, 28. Dezember 2007 16:42:20 schrieb Luiz Augusto:
> > [...]
> > Look the timestamp... I really love the worry that de.wikipedia (and
> > de.projects in general) have to quality. It is great to have. But on de
> > projects. Please avoid [[Cultural dissonance]]. Your community thinks
> > something, others communities not necessarily share it.
> Well I can "reveal" even more. I noticed this whole matter in a personal
> meeting of Wikipedians from Nuremberg in Ansbach on 21. December
> (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:N
> ürnberg/Berichte#21._Dezember_2007).
> Among other topics we which interwikis are an advantage to our
> multilingual
> readers (look at the article [[Sun]] it is a challenge to find the
> interwikis
> in the languages you are interested in).
> Thus we naturally discussed about Volapük Wikipedias "articles" and their
> resulting interwikis and our past efforts to solve he issue *together*
> with
> vo.wikipedians. One of our finding was that vo.wikipedians even consider
> masses of articles *without a single sentence* as articles and properly
> proposing some of those articles for deletion as vandalism (just today
> Smeira
> said in one case a little sorry combined with a further demand to follow
> some
> strange rules).
> On independence of Wikipedia communities:
> * A Wikipedia that generates interwikis to such contentless articles en
> masse
> destroys one of our common strengths: Our cool interwiki system.
> * Furthermore they challenge the reputation of the whole international
> Wikipedia community to outsiders.
> * And above all. There are some unchangeable rules in every Wikipedia
> imposed
> by the Wikimedia Foundation. One of them is NPOV and vo.wikipedia in its
> current stage simply has no chance to get somewhere near NPOV because of
> their methods choosen.
> So we all Wikipedias have mutal responsibility. If a Wikipedia is denies
> any
> responsibility for others and ignores (even temporarily) some unchangeable
> rules this community has to face the fact that they loose their
> independence
> until they are on common ground again.
> I would never impose de.wikipedia's "rules" on others (heck even I do not
> agree with some of these "rules", see
> http://arnomane.wordpress.com/2007/10/04/relevanz-ist-irrelevant/), just
> the
> common ground with a differentiated request (keeping all non-minor
> articles
> of Volapük and moving it to the Incubator).
> Arnomane
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