[Foundation-l] Vandalism and small wikis
Darko Bulatovic
mail at itam.ws
Wed Nov 29 17:16:40 UTC 2006
Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> Darko Bulatovic schreef:
>
>> Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Darko Bulatovic schreef:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Darko Bulatovic schreef:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yann Forget wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some wikis are plagued with vandalism, spams and non sense. Moldavan
>>>>>>> Wikipedia seems the worst at this time, but there have been others too.
>>>>>>> These projects do not bring any free knowledge to anybody, just a lot of
>>>>>>> works for volunteers (hopefully there are great volunteers like Pill)
>>>>>>> and stewards.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regarding the Moldavan Wikipedia (http://mo.wikipedia.org), the
>>>>>>> administrators election was already cancelled twice because of massive
>>>>>>> attacks. Sincere editors have been discouraged and have left. So the
>>>>>>> wiki is just a battle field for vandals, trolls and sockpuppets. There
>>>>>>> is no expected improvement in the near future because the language
>>>>>>> itself is in the middle of a political controversy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I forsee the same situation for the Montenegrin Wikipedia if it is
>>>>>>> created. These wikis only give a bad image of Wikimedia. I think that
>>>>>>> the Foundation should take its responsibilities and take some decisions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yann
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I cant believe my eyes that you Yann say this. How in the God sake you
>>>>>> can forsee such thing about Montenegrin wikipedia? Montenegrin wikipedia
>>>>>> gives bad image of Wikimedia? This statement that you did give bad image
>>>>>> to WMF. You don't have any argument to say this and to support your
>>>>>> statement.
>>>>>> Please elaborate this on Montenegrin request for Wikipedia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wikipedia is multilingual and multicultural project, without that WMF
>>>>>> don't have right to use that statement. What was done with Montenegrin
>>>>>> request is just showing what kind of lobbying is possible on WMF.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Darko bulatovic
>>>>>> President of IT Association of Montenegro
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hoi,
>>>>> Wikipedia is in its manifestations very much a multilingual project and
>>>>> very much not a multicultural project. Cultural and political reasons
>>>>> are not a reason to start another project. When you read the article
>>>>> about Montenegrin, the language on the English Wikipedia, it explains
>>>>> quite clearly that elements that are to make Montegrin special can be
>>>>> found outside of Montenegro as well. This means that from a linguistic
>>>>> point of view the case for a Montenegrin Wikipedia is pretty weak.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are languages where the cultural and political differences are
>>>>> quite big while there is no call for a split project. The Chinese and
>>>>> the Dutch wikipedias are good examples for this. It would be a good
>>>>> thing if you could find it in you to consider this and retract the
>>>>> application for a Montenegrin Wikipedia.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> GerardM
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>>>> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>>>>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Gerard,
>>>>
>>>> I don't understand why you mis interpret my statement. Please notice
>>>> "and". Who advice you on this meter? Political background of languages
>>>> is undiscussable . There must be political background of language, as
>>>> there must be political will to make standard from people language.
>>>> Linguistics rules are just political will on people language. If you
>>>> ignore this your opinion will not be righteous. I will repeat my sentence:
>>>> - Wikipedia is multilingual and multicultural project.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> With your blanket statement that "political background of languages is
>>> undiscussable" you indeed end the discussion. In this you are wrong.
>>>
>>> The Mapuche people are going to court because the Chilean government and
>>> the Microsoft company insist on a given orthography. The Mapuche live in
>>> Chile and Argentina. This proves very much that the insistence of making
>>> a language a people "owned" by a country is very much not universal. If
>>> your POV was shared by the Wikimedia Foundation there would be a project
>>> specific to US English. By having one English Wikipedia the quality is
>>> much better and the POV of the project is very much more a NEUTRAL POV
>>> than it would otherwise be.
>>> Thanks,
>>> GerardM
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
>>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Gerard you really make your position on this clear. If you check
>> requirements for ISO you will see that for language code it will need a
>> Government support. So language is political and ethnic question, but
>> you seems that don't have that wide understanding of history of
>> languages. I know the history of my language and that give me quite wide
>> understanding of political background. So please don't be that narrow in
>> understanding.
>>
>> Thank you
>> Darko Bulatovic
>>
> Hoi,
> What ISO language standard are you talking about ? As far as I am aware
> you are talking ISO-639-1/2. ISO-639-3 is quite different, ISO-639-6
> will be different again.
>
> It is rich that you inform me that I am clueless about languages and
> standards. Maybe you have to do some research yourself. You did puff
> yourself up by stating that you are the "President of IT Association of
> Montenegro". I have been active in the IT business myself and, /that
> /does not qualify me as either a linguist or as a politician. It does
> qualify me to know if an IT person is qualified being either; it does
> not implicitly.
>
> Again, in your argument you value the political background. When it
> comes to a vote in the language sub committee, I will vote against the
> creation of a Montenegrin because the arguments provided are political
> and not linguistics. By your very arguments it seems impossible that a
> neutral point of view would be forthcoming. My advise is that for as
> much as a Montenegrin orthography exists, it should be permitted in the
> sr.wikipedia.org.
>
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> Some more motivation::
> http://www.tol.cz/look/CER/article.tpl?IdLanguage=1&IdPublication=14&NrIssue=47&NrSection=5&NrArticle=9309
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
Gerard,
you just change topic when you dint have any arguments. I am topic? :) I
am totally apolitical personally but I rty to be realistic about this
meter. I dont see what is your point?
You will vote against ? I will take this statement here officially.
I don't see in any of your points here to be neutral you are POV all the
time.
>You did puff
>yourself up by stating that you are the "President of IT Association of
>Montenegro". I have been active in the IT business myself and, /that
>/*does not qualify me as either a linguist or as a politician*.
But you will vote against? Right? Ha.
I understand you very well here.
So you don't have any argument but you will still vote against the proposal.
Thank you for your honesty,
Darko Bulatovic
My statement to be president of ITAM is just my official role nothing
more nothing less. So don't be bothered by that.
More information about the foundation-l
mailing list