[Foundation-l] "Chinese Wikimania 2006 to be held in Hong Kong"

[Anthere]

Hello ROC

Thanks for the detailed answer. I appreciate it.
Just a couple of points

R.O.C wrote:
> it was a mess, a huge mess, but gladly we are now working together to
> address it and fix it. if i were a director or officer of the foundation, i
> would not feel good if i suddenly learned from the newspaper that the
> chinese or any other local community on the very projects of foundation had
> been planning something formal without sharing ideas and information with
> the foundation and moreover some people had used a foundation trademark
> without prior agreement! there were miscommunications and there are
> misunderstandings.
> 
> i'm a chinese wikipedian who would like to keep anonymity at the moment (my
> user page is at http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:R.O.C), and i have not
> participated much in the organization of this chinese conference. but i
> would like to help sorting the matter out since i understand both chinese
> and english. here is some information that i would like to provide.
> 
> 1) it is now realized that the chinese organizers were not keeping in touch
> with the foundation, but they have been reporting everything on a wikipedia
> project page (
> http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:2006%E4%B8%AD%E6%96%87%E7%B6%AD%E5%9F%BA%E5%B9%B4%E6%9C%83)
> in chinese. the working language for the organizers has to be chinese since
> few of them can use english efficiently and effectively. i will work on a
> english translation page on meta as informational briefs this saturday. (of
> course any help with setting it up sooner would be greatly appreciated.)

thanks

> 2) the chinese organizers and the community at large have since the starting
> of the projects been cohering strongly with the ideas/goals/policies of the
> foundation -- because we share these same values: free and open sources,
> neutrality and mutual respect among many others. this is true even if it is
> not conveyed to the foundation since we have not expressed it much in
> english. indeed, very few people know about this mailing list -- as an
> administrator and keen user on zh.wikipedia i did not even know about it
> until ~3 months ago (how shameful) and have not really utilize it until
> yesterday. i can tell that the chinese community wants to develop the
> chinese projects together with the foundation and the international
> community at large, and this intention/dedication has never changed.

please, advertise this list as well as meta. Also, we have a nice team 
of people working on all Wikimedia related topics, but most of this team 
is from Europe/USA/Canada. Little by little we get more people from 
South America as well. However, we still lack input from Africans and 
from people from the East. If some of you participate here from time to 
time, or on meta or come join irc #wikimedia channel, we should get to 
know each other better.

> 3) frankly, i believe that the difference between english and chinese
> languages are larger than that between any two western european languages.
> even though many chinese in modern mainland china and taiwan start to learn
> english before primary schools, the lack of live language environment makes
> it difficult for most of them to communicate in english with an acceptable
> efficiency. just imagine if asking a native english speaker write in
> chinese.

Well, your english appears quite good to me :-) at least, I understand 
it... better than some americans :-)

> 4) (partly from KJ's message) contributors to the chinese wikimedia projects
> mostly reside in mainland china, taiwan, and hong kong, and the remaining
> small portion locates mostly in north america, europe, and southeast asia.
> the zh.wikipedia editors and administrators communicate mainly by instant
> messagers online besides the wikimedia pages. many of them would like to
> meet and discuss in person about problems, development, and public promotion
> of wikimedia projects in chinese. many of the issues cannot be efficiently
> addressed in an online meeting, a local meeting, or an international
> conference. there are borders and the travel is not easy between these
> separate judicial regions, so it would not be as easy or little work as a
> local meet-up or a country meet-up. but the chinese community feels the need
> for such a conference and believes in its benefits for better development of
> wikimedia projects in future, so they would like to pursue it despite of all
> difficulties.
> 
> 5) (partly from KJ's message) the chinese community decided by vote after
> discussion to hold the conference 3 weeks after the international meeting.
> there were several considerations.
> 
> 5.1) due to limited economical abilities and some visa issues, few (if not
> zero) contributors in mainland china will be able to attend the
> international conference. the traveling cost to boston is not a small number
> for most contributors in taiwan or hong kong, either; but the traveling cost
> to/in HK would be affordable. those users who can make it for wikimania are
> likely to be able to travel to HK, but most users who will attend the
> chinese conference would not have the ability to attend wikimania even if
> there was no conference in HK. basically, holding a chinese conference in HK
> would not distract attendees to wikimania in boston.

Which suggest me that it could be a good idea to find some sponsors to 
help support costs for some chinese to come at Boston Wikimania.

> 5.2) the working language on the chinese conference will be chinese
> (probably mandarin) due to practical reasons. english interpreting service
> might be offered if there is such a need and the ability. the chinese
> conference will probably target largely on local or chinese
> firms/organizations for sponsorship/support. so i do not feel that the
> chinese conference will divert speakers or much of sponsoring
> fund/resources.
> 
> 5.3) the chinese community decided to hold the conference after wikimania so
> that the few attendees of both conferences can report what they have learned
> from wikimania to the chinese community. i think that it will actually
> expand the mission and influence of wikimedia and wikimania.
> 
> 5.4) many chinese contributors are college students, so holding the chinese
> conference in august when they are still in summer vacation will make it
> convenient for both attendees and volunteers.
> 
> 6) I agree that the organization of the chinese conference has been a little
> loose. i also agree that we should keep each other informed of what is going
> on in a timely and efficient manner. some chinese users as individuals have
> used the foundation's intellectual properties without obtaining prior
> consent, eg, the "wikimania" in the provisional english name and the
> wikipedia logo in the hong kong bidding poster.
> 
> 6.1) i have talked to some chinese organizers and learned that there will be
> better organization and managements with regards to accountability.
> 
> 6.2) a meta page about the chinese conference will be set up (before this
> saturday) for information and english media releases. chief chinese
> organizers will also use the foundation-l or other appropriate mailing lists
> for communications of ideas with the foundation and other communities. I
> have agreed to help identify and bridge any language difficulties / culture
> gaps between the two parts of our community.
> 
> 6.3) i hope that the community can help choosing an english translation for
> the chinese name of conference, in accordance with foundation policies. the
> chinese community/conference would like to seek the authorization for using
> names/trademarks of the foundation, if needed. the name of the chinese
> conference is "中文維基年會" (literally, "chinese language wikipedia/wikimedia
> annual conference").


I rather think the "chinese language wikimedia conference" would be 
best. It allows to have several meeting in the same year :-) and it 
involves editors from all projects, not wikipedia only.


> 6.3.1) i personally prefer the name "chinese wikimedia conference" and would
> like to know the procedures for seeking permissions from the foundation
> regarding the use of "wikimedia". there is no local chapters serving chinese
> projects at the moment (may not be any time soon either).

As far as I am concerned, the use of wikimedia name is okay.

> 6.4) as explained earlier, the english (or western) word of "wikimania" had
> been interpreted and understood in chinese differently as it is supposed to
> be. the organizers and chinese users have been informed at zh.wikipedia that
> wikimania does not mean "wikimedia conference", but "international wikimedia
> conference" (sponsored by wikimedia foundation); it is also a trading name
> of wikimedia foundation instead of a generic term.
> 
> hope that this is helpful.

Yes.
Very helpful.

Thanks ROC

Anthere


> roc (User:R.O.C)