[Foundation-l] "Chinese Wikimania 2006 to be held in Hong Kong"

[R.O.C]

it was a mess, a huge mess, but gladly we are now working together to
address it and fix it. if i were a director or officer of the foundation, i
would not feel good if i suddenly learned from the newspaper that the
chinese or any other local community on the very projects of foundation had
been planning something formal without sharing ideas and information with
the foundation and moreover some people had used a foundation trademark
without prior agreement! there were miscommunications and there are
misunderstandings.

i'm a chinese wikipedian who would like to keep anonymity at the moment (my
user page is at http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:R.O.C), and i have not
participated much in the organization of this chinese conference. but i
would like to help sorting the matter out since i understand both chinese
and english. here is some information that i would like to provide.

1) it is now realized that the chinese organizers were not keeping in touch
with the foundation, but they have been reporting everything on a wikipedia
project page (
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:2006%E4%B8%AD%E6%96%87%E7%B6%AD%E5%9F%BA%E5%B9%B4%E6%9C%83)
in chinese. the working language for the organizers has to be chinese since
few of them can use english efficiently and effectively. i will work on a
english translation page on meta as informational briefs this saturday. (of
course any help with setting it up sooner would be greatly appreciated.)

2) the chinese organizers and the community at large have since the starting
of the projects been cohering strongly with the ideas/goals/policies of the
foundation -- because we share these same values: free and open sources,
neutrality and mutual respect among many others. this is true even if it is
not conveyed to the foundation since we have not expressed it much in
english. indeed, very few people know about this mailing list -- as an
administrator and keen user on zh.wikipedia i did not even know about it
until ~3 months ago (how shameful) and have not really utilize it until
yesterday. i can tell that the chinese community wants to develop the
chinese projects together with the foundation and the international
community at large, and this intention/dedication has never changed.

3) frankly, i believe that the difference between english and chinese
languages are larger than that between any two western european languages.
even though many chinese in modern mainland china and taiwan start to learn
english before primary schools, the lack of live language environment makes
it difficult for most of them to communicate in english with an acceptable
efficiency. just imagine if asking a native english speaker write in
chinese.

4) (partly from KJ's message) contributors to the chinese wikimedia projects
mostly reside in mainland china, taiwan, and hong kong, and the remaining
small portion locates mostly in north america, europe, and southeast asia.
the zh.wikipedia editors and administrators communicate mainly by instant
messagers online besides the wikimedia pages. many of them would like to
meet and discuss in person about problems, development, and public promotion
of wikimedia projects in chinese. many of the issues cannot be efficiently
addressed in an online meeting, a local meeting, or an international
conference. there are borders and the travel is not easy between these
separate judicial regions, so it would not be as easy or little work as a
local meet-up or a country meet-up. but the chinese community feels the need
for such a conference and believes in its benefits for better development of
wikimedia projects in future, so they would like to pursue it despite of all
difficulties.

5) (partly from KJ's message) the chinese community decided by vote after
discussion to hold the conference 3 weeks after the international meeting.
there were several considerations.

5.1) due to limited economical abilities and some visa issues, few (if not
zero) contributors in mainland china will be able to attend the
international conference. the traveling cost to boston is not a small number
for most contributors in taiwan or hong kong, either; but the traveling cost
to/in HK would be affordable. those users who can make it for wikimania are
likely to be able to travel to HK, but most users who will attend the
chinese conference would not have the ability to attend wikimania even if
there was no conference in HK. basically, holding a chinese conference in HK
would not distract attendees to wikimania in boston.

5.2) the working language on the chinese conference will be chinese
(probably mandarin) due to practical reasons. english interpreting service
might be offered if there is such a need and the ability. the chinese
conference will probably target largely on local or chinese
firms/organizations for sponsorship/support. so i do not feel that the
chinese conference will divert speakers or much of sponsoring
fund/resources.

5.3) the chinese community decided to hold the conference after wikimania so
that the few attendees of both conferences can report what they have learned
from wikimania to the chinese community. i think that it will actually
expand the mission and influence of wikimedia and wikimania.

5.4) many chinese contributors are college students, so holding the chinese
conference in august when they are still in summer vacation will make it
convenient for both attendees and volunteers.

6) I agree that the organization of the chinese conference has been a little
loose. i also agree that we should keep each other informed of what is going
on in a timely and efficient manner. some chinese users as individuals have
used the foundation's intellectual properties without obtaining prior
consent, eg, the "wikimania" in the provisional english name and the
wikipedia logo in the hong kong bidding poster.

6.1) i have talked to some chinese organizers and learned that there will be
better organization and managements with regards to accountability.

6.2) a meta page about the chinese conference will be set up (before this
saturday) for information and english media releases. chief chinese
organizers will also use the foundation-l or other appropriate mailing lists
for communications of ideas with the foundation and other communities. I
have agreed to help identify and bridge any language difficulties / culture
gaps between the two parts of our community.

6.3) i hope that the community can help choosing an english translation for
the chinese name of conference, in accordance with foundation policies. the
chinese community/conference would like to seek the authorization for using
names/trademarks of the foundation, if needed. the name of the chinese
conference is "中文維基年會" (literally, "chinese language wikipedia/wikimedia
annual conference").

6.3.1) i personally prefer the name "chinese wikimedia conference" and would
like to know the procedures for seeking permissions from the foundation
regarding the use of "wikimedia". there is no local chapters serving chinese
projects at the moment (may not be any time soon either).

6.4) as explained earlier, the english (or western) word of "wikimania" had
been interpreted and understood in chinese differently as it is supposed to
be. the organizers and chinese users have been informed at zh.wikipedia that
wikimania does not mean "wikimedia conference", but "international wikimedia
conference" (sponsored by wikimedia foundation); it is also a trading name
of wikimedia foundation instead of a generic term.

hope that this is helpful.

roc (User:R.O.C)
--

在 2006/3/16，Anthere <Anthere9 at yahoo.com> 撰寫：
> KJ wrote:
> > 關於大家的問題，我稍微跟大家做一下說明。
> >
> >
第一，為什麼我們要辦中文年會？根據淡江大學的研究指出，參與中文維基的人主要來自中國大陸、台灣，還有香港，世界各地也有許多華文使用人口在參與中文維基的計畫。我們來自不同國家，大家平常主要以各種即時通訊軟體聯絡，非常希望能見面，這是第一個目的，並希望藉由中文維基年會來解決華文環境所遇到的問題。
> >
> >
第二，為什麼我們的時間選得和2006國際維基媒體大會那麼近？這是考慮到並非所有的中文維基人都有能力--特別是經濟方面--去參加國際維基媒體大會，所以我們將時間定在國際維基媒體大會之後，加上考慮到大部分中文維基人都是沒有經濟能力的學生，因此將時間定於暑假期間。舉辦的確切時間並非籌備小組自行決定，而是開放讓所有維基人投票選出的時間。而選在國際維基媒體大會之後，也正好可以讓有能力去國際維基媒體大會的維基人們，來和無法參與的維基人們分享經驗。
> >
> >
第三，是否結合中文維基人的力量來幫忙國際維基媒體大會，會是節省人力的方法？我的回答是，今天即使中文維基人參與了國際維基媒體大會的籌備工作，我們仍然會舉辦中文的維基年會。
> >
> > 第四，關於所有的中文維基年會籌辦過程和會議記錄，完全公開在維基百科上。
> >
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:2006%E4%B8%AD%E6%96%87%E7%B6%AD%E5%9F%BA%E5%B9%B4%E6%9C%83
> >
> > 我預計會去參加波士頓的國際維基媒體大會，非常期待與大家見面，希望大家能給中文維基年會更多建議。謝謝。
> >
> > PS:If you cann't read this latter very well.....that is one of the
reasons
> > why Chinese Wikipedians need a Chinese Wikipedian's Conference.
> >
> >
> > --
> > KaurJmeb(KJ)
>
> KJ... Absolutely no one questions the fact chinese editors want a
> conference :-) It is *good* that your community is now big enough and
> united enough to do one.
> Our only worries are that there might be a confusion of names between
> conferences (this has been cleared up) and that three meetings are done
> nearly at the same time.
>
> At least in Europe, meetings are frequent, and I am sure will be more
> and more frequent as time.
> Most of these meetings are restricted to one language only. German
> editors had several meetings (in german). Dutch editors had several
> meetings (in dutch/english). French editors had several meetings as well
> (in french)...
> Of course, chinese editors *should* have meetings as well.
>
> Also, you must absolutely believe we understand the language problem.
> Many of those posting on this list are not primarily english speaking.
> In the recent posters, Delphine, Yann, Jean-Christophe, Jean-Baptiste,
> myself are French. Erik, Mathias are Germans. Gerard and Walter are
> Dutch. Aphaia is Japanese. Shizao is Chinese. Some of us are good in
> english. Others are not very good. And we all belong to communities
> where many people do not speak english at all. French people generally
> are *bad* in english. Those of us who can speak english can help bridge
> between communities.
>
> I hope you (and other chinese who speak english) will post here more
> often. We need you and your input. Last year in Frankfurt, Theodorian
> and others came and told us about the chinese community. You may do the
> same. And I'll tell you about the french ;-)
>
> ant
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l at wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>