[Foundation-l] Introducing a new mailing list

[The Cunctator]

I don't deny that there's a problem but this is not the right way to deal
with it. Closed advocacy groups should not be officially recognized by or
use Wikimedia resources.

On 12/4/06, Birgitte SB <birgitte_sb at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> --- Yann Forget <yann at forget-me.net> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > Angela a écrit :
> > > Following recent discussions on wikien-l where a
> > number of women said
> > > they were not comfortable contributing to the
> > discussion, a new
> > > mailing list has been created for female wiki
> > editors to discuss
> > > issues of gender bias in wikis and ways to
> > encourage more female
> > > editors, and just as a place that females can feel
> > more comfortable
> > > posting to.
> > >
> > > It's called WikiChix - named after LinuxChix, the
> > women-oriented
> > > community for Linux users.
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LinuxChix
> > >
> > > If you are female and interested in wikis, I would
> > like to encourage
> > > to join the mailing list at
> > >
> >
> http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikichix-l
> > >
> > > There's also a wiki at http://wikichix.org/ - let
> > me know your
> > > username if you'd like an account there. Some of
> > the pages are openly
> > > editable, so even if you're not female, you are
> > welcome to post your
> > > comments at http://wikichix.org/wiki/Comments
> > >
> > > The FAQs for the related communities at
> > >
> >
> http://wikichix.org/wiki/WikiChix#Related_communities
> > answer a lot of
> > > questions about why this was created, so please
> > read those for more
> > > information until we have our own FAQ.
> >
> > They are always been a gender bias in Wikipedia,
> > first by the simple
> > fact that there are much less women editors than
> > men. This is
> > particularly obvious on the French Wikipedia from
> > the start, so it is
> > not specific to one language. I think the numbers of
> > women editors has
> > increased lately, but women are still far from being
> > about the same
> > number as men.
> >
> > Until recently, I thought that the problem would
> > solve itself over time,
> > when Wikipedia becoming more mainstream. I read the
> > thread on wikien-l
> > and I think that the problem is more serious than I
> > thought. The first
> > problem is when people (men only ?) do not see that
> > the problem exists.
> > It remembers me of the tale of the fish and water.
> > When asked its
> > opinion about water, the fish said: "Please show me
> > some water. I don't
> > see any water."
> >
> > It is sad that women feel the need for a separate
> > list, but denying them
> > this tool will not help solve the problem. So I hope
> > that the list will
> > serve its purpose and helps women feel more
> > confident on Wikimedia projects.
> >
> > > Angela
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Yann
> >
>
> I am completely shocked after reading the archive at
> Wikien-l .  My first thought on this list was that it
> should be open.  I still would prefer it to be open,
> but it will never exist if comments like those that
> are showing up on Wikien-l arre to be how it is
> started.  There is such a lack of belief that the
> problem exists or that it is serious which is shocking
> to me.  If anyone who attended the Board Q & A at
> Wikimania and can still think it is not a serious
> problem after witnessing the entire room laugh at
> dismissive comment which nearly brought me to my feet
> in outrage; I do not know what to say to them.  And I
> do not think the participation of such people who must
> have these problems proved to them  will help the
> situation.
>
> I have to force myself to write this after closing the
> "Compose" window a dozen times.  But I feel it is
> important to be honest about this here.  Honestly the
> way a woman can contribute in places like this by
> overlooking all the subtle sexism.  By ignoring it and
> pretending it is not about her.  By not responding to
> these threads and not drawing attention to the fact
> that she is not a man.  By not writing email like this
> one.  I do not know how to participate in a discusion
> about this subtle sort of dismissive sexism with the
> people who dismiss it. Not if I want to turn around
> and work with them on-wiki.  I hope this new list can
> be something that is open for anyone to join.  I hope
> the men who would join would take the opportunity to
> listen in to such a discussion rather than shape it.
> But after reading the wikien-l archive I really am
> worried many could not stop themselves from arguing
> the point.  I don't know the answer.  I do know that I
> will *not* discuss this topic with a number of the
> people commenting at wikien-l, because they don't get
> it.
>
> If anyone thinks I don't get.  Maybe you are right.
> Maybe this is just all in my head and it was
> irrational of me to react so strongly to the comment
> at Wikimania.  Maybe there are legions of women
> secretly contributing to the wiki's right now, I mean
> who really know which gender someone is.  Maybe there
> isn't a problem at all.
>
> BirgitteSB
>
>
>
>
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