[Foundation-l] Re: Swedish, Spanish, French Wikinews set up

[Anthere]

Erik Moeller a écrit:
> Anthere-
> 
>> However, setting up a wikinews the way you did it, without prior warning
> 
> 
> This is untrue. After the creation of nl.wikinews.org, I wrote:
> 
> "If everything is OK, and the board is happy with this language being 
> set up, I will go ahead and create the other ones which have sufficient 
> community support. "
> 
> There were no objections.

You forget one thing.
Editors on the french wikipedia do not lose their time reading you on 
the foundation list. Most of them have no idea what is going here. And 
you have similarly no idea of what is going on there.

Are you aware some wrote there this wiki should be deleted ?

You can't claim that there is no objection when people are not even 
aware of something going on. You can't pretend the foundation list is a 
channel of information read by anyone. Nowhere is written that this is 
mandatory.

The truth is many editors in non english projects just do not read mails 
here, and have no way to know what is decided by other people for them.

So, if you give an information, which you really want them to read, a 
solution is to go to fr.wikipedia pump at least.

Given the opposition there was on the project, I think it would have 
been appreciated that you at least mention the creation over there.

>> without taking into account the strong opposition which existed in the 
>> french community 
> 
> 
> You agreed to this approach. You are a member of the board of elected 
> *global* representatives. I respect your unhappiness, but you have got 
> yourself to blame as much as anyone else for this outcome. Please take 
> some responsibility for your own actions. I am a powerless user. 

Powerless user ?
Please do avoid playing on this argument, it does not fit you well.

You have the power to set up a wiki even when editors are not 
suppporting it.

You even have the power to make yourself sysop, bureaucrat, developer on 
a wiki without asking and even telling anyone.


I could
> not have created fr.wikinews.org without the support of you and the rest 
> of the board. You had the opportunity to raise objections, to define 
> stricter criteria than the ones I used, to talk to me. You did not.

My stupidity was not to set a criteria such as
* when starting a wiki, 5 editors should be required. These 5 editors 
should be able to read and write the language to be created or their 
votes will not be considered.

When a criteria must mention that an editor must be able to edit a wiki 
for its vote to be valid, I think we are reaching a level of bureaucracy 
that goes too far.

In any cases, I added the following criteria to the creation requirements

http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Policy_for_wikis_in_new_languages&curid=12807&diff=0&oldid=94663



> You write bitterly about "local community wish[es] crushed by 
> globalization". Now, I know that you like to play the defender of the 
> oppressed. But I've got news for you, Florence: By that nomenclature, 
> you're one of the oppressors, part of the global elite that makes 
> decisions for small communities. You have power, I do not. You can fool 
> some people into thinking that you were "tricked" by the clever and 
> manipulative Erik, but the reality is that I have got to thank you. You 
> made fr.wikinews.org possible.  Thanks a lot for that. I appreciate the 
> support.

I hope you do.
*I* was not tricked by you at all.
You only made possible the existence of a local wiki with extremely 
little support and broken rules.


>> People are doing great things on them, but even after 2 years, these 
>> projects are still hardly resources. They will be great things later, 
>> but right now, they still host small communities.
> 
> 
> That's fine with me. Someone has to lay the groundwork. It's OK for a 
> project to start small and to grow later. Aside from that, I am still 
> skeptical that Wiktionary is at all feasible with the current software, 
> and think that Wikisource should be merged into the Wikimedia Commons to 
> be successful.
> 
> I've said the same thing to Delphine: There's no point at all in being 
> paranoid about bad publicity. Those who want to harm us will find 
> reasons to do so. No amount of off-wiki preparation will prevent a 
> slamming anti-Wikinews editorial. But to believe that any such editorial 
> could do us any serious long-term harm is very naive and underestimates 
> the intelligence and autonomy of our readers and editors.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Erik

Very naive ?

Well, there are some comments you should avoid making Erik.
I thought we had a sort of agreement to avoid personal attacks and to 
respect other opinions on such matters. Over then ?