An update for people interested in previewing or screening Truth in Numbers:
Email info@crowdstarter.com with your interest. (They seem to be responding quickly now.) They will set you up with a way to stream a preview, and can mail you a screener DVD.
Sam.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Paola Freccero paola@crowdstarter.com Date: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:16 AM Subject: RE: [WikiX-l] Truth in numbers
Hi there – sorry for the delay in getting back to you. We are happy to make sure that anyone who wants or needs one gets a screener in a timely fashion. We are also arranging for the film to be posted to an FTP so that people can do a stream preview.
Anyone who wants to be in touch can email info@crowdstarter.com which reaches both Liz and I.
So excited to see what events pop up!
paola
I forgot about this thread and emailed info@crowdstarter.com directly, asking for Truth in numbers. That was two days ago, and I have no response yet, but perhaps I ended up in their spam filter or something.
Anyway, the news that we can show it, is great. Now we have one thing more that we can put up on our schedule for Jan 15th.
Best wishes,
/Lennart
Lennart Guldbrandsson, ordförande för Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05 Epost: l_guldbrandsson@hotmail.com Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 15:07:34 -0500 From: sj@wikimedia.org To: wikix-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [WikiX-l] Truth in numbers
An update for people interested in previewing or screening Truth in Numbers:
Email info@crowdstarter.com with your interest. (They seem to be responding quickly now.) They will set you up with a way to stream a preview, and can mail you a screener DVD.
Sam.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Paola Freccero paola@crowdstarter.com Date: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:16 AM Subject: RE: [WikiX-l] Truth in numbers
Hi there – sorry for the delay in getting back to you. We are happy to make sure that anyone who wants or needs one gets a screener in a timely fashion. We are also arranging for the film to be posted to an FTP so that people can do a stream preview.
Anyone who wants to be in touch can email info@crowdstarter.com which reaches both Liz and I.
So excited to see what events pop up!
paola
WikiX-l mailing list WikiX-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikix-l
I would just like to repeat that I think that this film should *not* be screened at Wikimedia 10th events.
Many Wikipedians were offended by it when it showed at Wikimania. Liam Wyatt spoke up to say that he felt "attacked" by the film. It portrays completely ludicrous critics as if they are valid. (The guy from The Register appears in the film to be a serious journalist, but if you know his coverage of wikipedia, it has been extremely tabloid and conspiracy-theorist in nature).
Rather than focussing attention on the wonderful community, the film leaves a sad and bitter taste in the mouth, is demeaning to volunteers, and rehashes debate points that are 5 years old. The world has moved on beyond Andrew Keen's pseudo-arguments.
--Jimbo
On 12/15/10 8:07 PM, Samuel Klein wrote:
An update for people interested in previewing or screening Truth in Numbers:
Email info@crowdstarter.com with your interest. (They seem to be responding quickly now.) They will set you up with a way to stream a preview, and can mail you a screener DVD.
Sam.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Paola Frecceropaola@crowdstarter.com Date: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:16 AM Subject: RE: [WikiX-l] Truth in numbers
Hi there – sorry for the delay in getting back to you. We are happy to make sure that anyone who wants or needs one gets a screener in a timely fashion. We are also arranging for the film to be posted to an FTP so that people can do a stream preview.
Anyone who wants to be in touch can email info@crowdstarter.com which reaches both Liz and I.
So excited to see what events pop up!
paola
WikiX-l mailing list WikiX-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikix-l
Just out of interest... (I would like to see the movie again to re-check my first reaction) is the film somewhere available for download at zero cost? (the film is after all CCBYSA according to truthinnumbersthemovie.com ).
I agree with Jimmy that screening is tricky. However, I do think that with the proper surrounding discussion panel and notices that it is out of date etc, it might proof good ground for discussions. I know that some Wikipedians were very unhappy about the result, and I also think that it is much less than it could have been. But at the same time, it is the best there is in this category at the moment. I can only hope that some day there will be a better version available :)
Lodewijk
2010/12/16 Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia-inc.com
I would just like to repeat that I think that this film should *not* be screened at Wikimedia 10th events.
Many Wikipedians were offended by it when it showed at Wikimania. Liam Wyatt spoke up to say that he felt "attacked" by the film. It portrays completely ludicrous critics as if they are valid. (The guy from The Register appears in the film to be a serious journalist, but if you know his coverage of wikipedia, it has been extremely tabloid and conspiracy-theorist in nature).
Rather than focussing attention on the wonderful community, the film leaves a sad and bitter taste in the mouth, is demeaning to volunteers, and rehashes debate points that are 5 years old. The world has moved on beyond Andrew Keen's pseudo-arguments.
--Jimbo
On 12/15/10 8:07 PM, Samuel Klein wrote:
An update for people interested in previewing or screening Truth in
Numbers:
Email info@crowdstarter.com with your interest. (They seem to be responding quickly now.) They will set you up with a way to stream a preview, and can mail you a screener DVD.
Sam.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Paola Frecceropaola@crowdstarter.com Date: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:16 AM Subject: RE: [WikiX-l] Truth in numbers
Hi there – sorry for the delay in getting back to you. We are happy to make sure that anyone who wants or needs one gets a screener in a timely fashion. We are also arranging for the film to be posted to an FTP so that people can do a stream preview.
Anyone who wants to be in touch can email info@crowdstarter.com which reaches both Liz and I.
So excited to see what events pop up!
paola
WikiX-l mailing list WikiX-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikix-l
WikiX-l mailing list WikiX-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikix-l
+1. Truth in numbers was very much a disappointment, it focuses too much on the "only amateurs" argument which we know is not true nor relevant, and it misses much of the cool things that are happening in the movement. We should really do something better, and I do feel there's potential in doing it by crowdsourcing, much as YouTube did their YouTube symphony (http://www.youtube.com/user/symphony). Perhaps this is a part of the Bookshelf Project - I don't know.
But until this becomes a reality, people will wonder why we are "hiding" the movie that does exist by not showing it. We made such a big fuzz about it before it came out, that we now cannot very easily just say "it's outdated" or "it's too critical" or "it misses the point" without seeming anxious about what people will think about Wikipedia after they see it. As we will show it mainly to Wikipedians, they will know what parts are untrue, and what parts are unfair - and if they are offended by the film, we can say "Hey, let's do a better one", just as we do when it comes to Wikipedia articles.
Anyway, please do not take showing the film as an endorsement of the quality of the film.
Best wishes,
Lennart
Lennart Guldbrandsson, ordförande för Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05 Epost: l_guldbrandsson@hotmail.com Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/
From: lodewijk@effeietsanders.org Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 14:02:44 +0100 To: wikix-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [WikiX-l] Truth in numbers
Just out of interest... (I would like to see the movie again to re-check my first reaction) is the film somewhere available for download at zero cost? (the film is after all CCBYSA according to truthinnumbersthemovie.com ).
I agree with Jimmy that screening is tricky. However, I do think that with the proper surrounding discussion panel and notices that it is out of date etc, it might proof good ground for discussions. I know that some Wikipedians were very unhappy about the result, and I also think that it is much less than it could have been. But at the same time, it is the best there is in this category at the moment. I can only hope that some day there will be a better version available :)
Lodewijk
2010/12/16 Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia-inc.com
I would just like to repeat that I think that this film should *not* be
screened at Wikimedia 10th events.
Many Wikipedians were offended by it when it showed at Wikimania. Liam
Wyatt spoke up to say that he felt "attacked" by the film. It portrays
completely ludicrous critics as if they are valid. (The guy from The
Register appears in the film to be a serious journalist, but if you know
his coverage of wikipedia, it has been extremely tabloid and
conspiracy-theorist in nature).
Rather than focussing attention on the wonderful community, the film
leaves a sad and bitter taste in the mouth, is demeaning to volunteers,
and rehashes debate points that are 5 years old. The world has moved on
beyond Andrew Keen's pseudo-arguments.
--Jimbo
On 12/15/10 8:07 PM, Samuel Klein wrote:
An update for people interested in previewing or screening Truth in Numbers:
Email info@crowdstarter.com with your interest. (They seem to be
responding quickly now.) They will set you up with a way to stream a
preview, and can mail you a screener DVD.
Sam.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Paola Frecceropaola@crowdstarter.com
Date: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: [WikiX-l] Truth in numbers
Hi there – sorry for the delay in getting back to you. We are happy
to make sure that anyone who wants or needs one gets a screener in a
timely fashion. We are also arranging for the film to be posted to an
FTP so that people can do a stream preview.
Anyone who wants to be in touch can email info@crowdstarter.com which
reaches both Liz and I.
So excited to see what events pop up!
paola
WikiX-l mailing list
WikiX-l@lists.wikimedia.org
_______________________________________________
WikiX-l mailing list
WikiX-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikix-l
_______________________________________________ WikiX-l mailing list WikiX-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikix-l
I tend to agree with Jimmy, but I also appreciate that if your express intention is to celebrate by screening something, it's really the only film in the genre and about our movement.
I'm not at all concerned about any perception that not recognizing nor supporting the film is in some way an attempt to hide it because of what it is. It was up to the producers to promote, celebrate, distribute, and generally bring attention to the project. It didn't come together, and now I know people are having trouble just finding copies/permission and making it happen. I gather the producers are interested in screenings, so obviously they continue to be the very best people to help make it happen, if you choose to screen the film.
I also want to recognize that those screening the film are more focussed on a discussion platform rather than a 'screening' event. Although I would also add that any publicizing of a screening outside of local volunteers will very likely bring in public and media, and you won't be experiencing a 'wikipedian-focussed' screening.
On a broader scale, I've started exploring the very first steps of some kind of a collaborative, travelling wikimedia film festival. There are some really smart models for low-cost, easy to organize film-festivals out there (interested parties submit films, films are freely available, screenings and events take place anywhere in the world etc).
I hope that will open a door for new projects in virtually any language, new videos and film, and very vibrant opportunities for discussion around the world. And a great way to invite those new to the movement to participate and contribute film that evokes the movement, in a wide variety of ways.
jw On Dec 16, 2010, at 5:36 AM, lennart guldbrandsson wrote:
+1. Truth in numbers was very much a disappointment, it focuses too much on the "only amateurs" argument which we know is not true nor relevant, and it misses much of the cool things that are happening in the movement. We should really do something better, and I do feel there's potential in doing it by crowdsourcing, much as YouTube did their YouTube symphony (http://www.youtube.com/user/symphony). Perhaps this is a part of the Bookshelf Project - I don't know.
But until this becomes a reality, people will wonder why we are "hiding" the movie that does exist by not showing it. We made such a big fuzz about it before it came out, that we now cannot very easily just say "it's outdated" or "it's too critical" or "it misses the point" without seeming anxious about what people will think about Wikipedia after they see it. As we will show it mainly to Wikipedians, they will know what parts are untrue, and what parts are unfair - and if they are offended by the film, we can say "Hey, let's do a better one", just as we do when it comes to Wikipedia articles.
Anyway, please do not take showing the film as an endorsement of the quality of the film.
Best wishes,
Lennart
Lennart Guldbrandsson, ordförande för Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05 Epost: l_guldbrandsson@hotmail.com Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal Blogg:http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/
From: lodewijk@effeietsanders.org Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 14:02:44 +0100 To: wikix-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [WikiX-l] Truth in numbers
Just out of interest... (I would like to see the movie again to re-check my first reaction) is the film somewhere available for download at zero cost? (the film is after all CCBYSA according to truthinnumbersthemovie.com ).
I agree with Jimmy that screening is tricky. However, I do think that with the proper surrounding discussion panel and notices that it is out of date etc, it might proof good ground for discussions. I know that some Wikipedians were very unhappy about the result, and I also think that it is much less than it could have been. But at the same time, it is the best there is in this category at the moment. I can only hope that some day there will be a better version available :)
Lodewijk
2010/12/16 Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia-inc.com I would just like to repeat that I think that this film should *not* be screened at Wikimedia 10th events.
Many Wikipedians were offended by it when it showed at Wikimania. Liam Wyatt spoke up to say that he felt "attacked" by the film. It portrays completely ludicrous critics as if they are valid. (The guy from The Register appears in the film to be a serious journalist, but if you know his coverage of wikipedia, it has been extremely tabloid and conspiracy-theorist in nature).
Rather than focussing attention on the wonderful community, the film leaves a sad and bitter taste in the mouth, is demeaning to volunteers, and rehashes debate points that are 5 years old. The world has moved on beyond Andrew Keen's pseudo-arguments.
--Jimbo
On 12/15/10 8:07 PM, Samuel Klein wrote:
An update for people interested in previewing or screening Truth in Numbers:
Email info@crowdstarter.com with your interest. (They seem to be responding quickly now.) They will set you up with a way to stream a preview, and can mail you a screener DVD.
Sam.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Paola Frecceropaola@crowdstarter.com Date: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:16 AM Subject: RE: [WikiX-l] Truth in numbers
Hi there – sorry for the delay in getting back to you. We are happy to make sure that anyone who wants or needs one gets a screener in a timely fashion. We are also arranging for the film to be posted to an FTP so that people can do a stream preview.
Anyone who wants to be in touch can email info@crowdstarter.com which reaches both Liz and I.
So excited to see what events pop up!
paola
WikiX-l mailing list WikiX-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikix-l
WikiX-l mailing list WikiX-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikix-l
_______________________________________________ WikiX-l mailing list WikiX-l@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikix-l _______________________________________________ WikiX-l mailing list WikiX-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikix-l
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 8:02 AM, Lodewijk lodewijk@effeietsanders.org wrote:
Just out of interest... (I would like to see the movie again to re-check my first reaction) is the film somewhere available for download at zero cost? (the film is after all CCBYSA according to truthinnumbersthemovie.com ).
Not that I've seen. Maybe they are waiting for the DVD release (looks like that is still only in preorder). The license is a step in the right direction, since they were still debating it at Wikimania.
Lennart writes:
Truth in numbers was very much a disappointment, it focuses too much on the "only amateurs" argument which we know is not true nor relevant, and it misses much of the cool things that are happening in the movement.
<
Anyway, please do not take showing the film as an endorsement of the quality of the film.
Right. It is a flawed film, but worth seeing with friends who can laugh with you at the ridiculous parts. Half of the film documents the energy and scope of Wikipedians from around the world and of every age - it's worth seeing for that. There are some charming cameos (user:node_ue comes to mind).
The other half focuses on what a few white American journalists, historians and wiki-critics think about authority and Wikipedia, and does not distinguish between thoughtful comments and careless ones. (As one reviewer said: the film makes some good points about how we determine authority, but not intentionally.)
Jimmy writes:
Liam Wyatt spoke up to say that he felt "attacked" by the film.
Yes, it feels like that at times. As to whether you want to show all or part of it in public... see for yourself. Liam and I took part in a panel discussion at a screening of the film in New York -- the audience did not know much about Wikipedia, but had a positive view of it afterwards, and thought the hostile critics looked like blowhards.
Lodewijk writes:
I know that some Wikipedians were very unhappy about the result, and I also think that it is much less than it could have been. But at the same time, it is the best there is in this category at the moment. I can only hope that some day there will be a better version available :)
Lennart writes:
We should really do something better, and I do feel there's potential in doing it by crowdsourcing, much as YouTube did their YouTube symphony...
< As we will show it mainly to Wikipedians, they will know what parts are untrue,
and what parts are unfair - and if they are offended by the film, we can say Hey, let's do a better one", just as we do when it comes to Wikipedia articles.
I think the most interesting aspect of the film is the hundreds of hours of interviews with Wikimedians that didn't make it into the film. The raw footage is good; it's the narrative arc they chose that is sad. Figuring out what to do with this archive of our community's footage is a nice challenge. (of course first they have to get around to posting it...)
Jay writes:
On a broader scale, I've started exploring the very first steps of some kind of a collaborative, travelling wikimedia film festival.
Now that is a brilliant idea.
SJ
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Jay writes:
On a broader scale, I've started exploring the very first steps of some kind of a collaborative, travelling wikimedia film festival.
Now that is a brilliant idea.
SJ
++
Yes, a really awesome idea, and something that is very feasible given the ubiquity of video technology nowadays. We just need an exciting occasion like this to spur people to get creative in this way.
Thanks, Richard (User:Pharos)