Yes, I find it more difficult to write for Simple English, because it (Simple English) is not my first language and I do not think in it, and the words I would normally use for the topics I prefer are not invented there and have to be worked around, so it is translation a lot of the time. There is no major obstacle other than money and contributors to creating a simple version encyclopaedia in any other language  in a non WMF environment.

Cheers,

Peter

From: Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga [mailto:galder158@hotmail.com]
Sent: 24 June 2022 09:59
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia

Just a reminder that Simple English Wikipedia exists, but there are no Simple _________ Wikipedia versions and there won't be. So that may be a solution for English (it is not, as writing in Simple Wikipedia is way more complex than doing at the regular one, because you must change the language) but not for the other languages. There's where especial places for children may work.

Have a good day,

Galder

---

From: Neurodivergent Netizen <idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 6:13 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia

I don't disagree with trying to make language more understandable in general, though.

Right, but like I’m saying, we have the Simple Wikipedia already.

From,

I dream of horses

She/her

On Jun 23, 2022, at 8:57 PM, Clover Moss <clovermosswikipedia@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't disagree with trying to make language more understandable in general, though. If there was a children's version, it might be useful for things like math articles. I remember looking up stuff like the quadratic formula when I was in high school, seeing way more advanced mathematics than I was used to and just giving up that Wikipedia could be a useful resource for that. Obviously Wikipedia isn't the end-all be-all for everything and it shouldn't be (obviously it wasn't meant to help me with homework either), but I do agree with the general principle expressed that WereSpielChequers that Wikipedia should be written for a general audience and that's what considered inappropriate is variable depending on your life circumstances. 

On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 9:57 AM WereSpielChequers <werespielchequers@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I'm curious as to what level of reading skill you are writing this for and also what level of understanding/adulthood.

I see these as two different issues and both are likely to vary sharply especially between different countries with very different education systems. 

A childrens' encyclopaedia written for nine year olds would surely be very different than one written for thirteen year olds. And content that parents of fourteen year olds thought was age inappropriate in Alabama might be thought appropriate or even bowdlerised by parents of ten year olds in London.

In other words, are you sure that one single childrens' encyclopaedia is the answer to either the problem of reading age or age appropriate content?

Where I think that Wikipedia could and should change re this is in our use of jargon. To my mind a "general interest" english language encyclopaedia should be written in plain English. I suspect other language versions have similar issues.  Perhaps if we focussed more on this we would make it easier for those who wish to create childrens' versions.

Regards

WSC

On Thu, 23 Jun 2022 at 13:03, <wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Small joyy: Txikipedia  of the da(Neurodivergent Netizen)

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Message: 1
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2022 17:13:33 -0700
From: Neurodivergent Netizen <idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com>
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
To: Wikimedia Mailing List <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Message-ID: <8C62ADA1-09EE-46FF-B27D-389B6BB3E54C@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
        boundary="Apple-Mail=_9EEB7F4B-E2E5-42FB-AED5-C7C07107CEF2"

>> That wouldn't be a wise choice that WMF host such a wiki if it brings the risk of being legaly attacked on that ground, even for bad reasons and unsuccessfully, whereas it never happened to Vikidia in 15 years (and very few kind of bad buzz like "look what they teach to the children").

And of course, any WMF-affiliated wiki would be more at-risk simply because of the association with the more well-known Wikipedia.

> The document is not really public yet. :-)

I think I can wait until it’s public and proofread. :-)

From,
I dream of horses
She/her





> On Jun 22, 2022, at 1:45 PM, Ziko van Dijk <zvandijk@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> At the moment I am working on a document that extensively explains how
> we work on the Klexikon. If someone is interested, please send me a
> private message. The document is not really public yet. :-)
> Kind regards
> Ziko
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Klexikon
>
> Am Mi., 22. Juni 2022 um 19:27 Uhr schrieb Mathias Damour
> <mathias.damour@gmx.fr>:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> De: "Neurodivergent Netizen" <idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com>
>> I think a particular hurdle for a standalone WMF-affiliated kidipedia project is the COPPA, and other similar laws both in the US and elsewhere that could potentially increase civil liability. Another hurdle is that America is very aware, perhaps overly aware, of the potential safety risks when children are involved in websites. Then you add in the fact that kids are likely to continue editing Wikipedia instead of Kidipedia, and it’s not worth the extra effort.  This effort would include hiring/reassigning staff so you can have a team of people for just Kidipedia, along with the background checks and identity verification needed. None of that are obstacles that aren’t in the way of kids editing the existing projects.
>>
>> I predict a WMF-affiliated kidipedia would largely be abandoned quite quickly.
>>
>> You are probably right. I would say COPPA may not be the biggest hurdle, yet the british "UK Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act 2006" is another one, and moreover the fact that "America is very aware, perhaps overly aware, of the potential safety risks when children are involved in websites" (and I would also say that "America" weight more the right of parents to control what is taught to their children and less the right of the children to inform themselves - the latter being upheld by the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which the US didn't ratificate - compared to other countries).
>> We reviewed it on https://en.vikidia.org/wiki/Vikidia:Legal_matters
>>
>> That wouldn't be a wise choice that WMF host such a wiki if it brings the risk of being legaly attacked on that ground, even for bad reasons and unsuccessfully, whereas it never happened to Vikidia in 15 years (and very few kind of bad buzz like "look what they teach to the children").
>>
>> You tell about "hiring/reassigning staff so you can have a team of people for just Kidipedia", well, that's quite exactly the point I adressed on this blog post :
>> Vikidia, l’anti-professionnalisation
>> https://www.wikimedia.fr/vikidia-lanti-professionnalisation/
>> ...to tell that the vision of children needing to be only alongside their closed family and professionals workers - and that it should be the same if a wiki for children is set (that we would need professionnal educators either to write the articles, to design the project or to manage the community or all that together) - did cause much delay to the wiki encyclopedias for children, and how we do otherwise on Vikidia.
>>
>> Reminder, the Wikikids project was developped on this page and subpages :
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikikids
>>
>> Envoyé: mercredi 22 juin 2022 à 12:37
>> De: "Galder Gonzalez Larrañaga" <galder158@hotmail.com>
>> À: "Wikimedia Mailing List" <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
>> Objet: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Small joy of the day: Txikipedia
>> From our experience, is just the opposite: Wikipedia is not asking any extra step nor age confirmation, and legally you can have an account even if you are underage. Children are consulting Wikipedia without limits, and they can find adult content easily. We don't have any advice about that, nor filters at Commons, where you can find even porn using words that were not intended for that. The place is open, and we have massive visits from children, so providing them a better place, thought for them (as our strategic direction says) is better that not providing at all.
>>
>> I can only agree!
>>
>>
>> Mathias Damour
>> [[User:Astirmays]]
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