(Cross-posting to the "wikimaps" list, which is the group particularly concerned with old maps).
Hi Jason,
Whilst I'm sure the KML {{overlay}} template mentioned by Gauruv below probably works, it's not really where things are at going forward.
The approach currently being developed for Commons is its own install of the well-known NYPL Map Warper, http://warper.wmflabs.org/ which is being supervised by its original developer Tim Waters under the auspices of the Wikimaps project for old maps, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wikimaps led by Susanna Ånäs. (Both on the wikimaps list).
There are various ways to get control-point data into the map warper, as discussed by Tim in this post: https://mail-archive.com/maps-l@lists.wikimedia.org/msg01101.html
In this case I would have thought the most straightforward approach would be first to upload a copy of the tithe map onto Commons in its native format, ie not as a GeoTiff, but as either an ordinary Tiff or a Jpeg, whichever you consider the original format.
If you use the Commons {{Map}} template for the file description, this includes a big friendly blue button to then install the image over on the Map Warper.
As Tim writes, existing control points can then be added from a CSV file, where the format is simply:
filename,x,y,lat,lon
ie:
IMG_1773.jpg,12,23,11.2,32.2 IMG_1773.jpg,12,23,10.2,31.1
from which there is script that an admin can use to add the data to the map-warper.
This doesn't capture all of the data stored by Klokan Georeferencer -- eg the useful information as to what layer the image was georeferenced against -- but is enough to get the geo-referencing data into the system, and to then get it out in various formats, including serving georeferenced tiles.
Sorry if it's all still a little bit round-the-houses; but with luck everything should get a bit more streamlined, as we get more geared up for large scale import.
(There are already a couple of thousand images on Commons with links to external georeferencing, either at NYPL or the British Library; plus ready to be uploaded to Commons a further 6,000 georeferenced map images from the BL Mechanical Curator collection, just as soon as I've got auto-categorisation a bit more worked out, with that number currently increasing by approximately a further 100 georeferenced images a day https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:British_Library/Mechanical_Curato... ).
As far as I know, nobody has yet actually used the script to import pre-existing georeferencing onto the warper.wmflabs.org server, so I'm quite interested to see how you get on!
Best regards,
James.
On 24/04/2015 18:02, Gaurav Vaidya wrote:
Hi Jason!
On 24 Apr 2015, at 8:30 am, Jason J. Evans jason.evans@llgc.org.uk wrote:
Hello,
I would be grateful for some advise on the following matter. The NLW is interested in uploading a large Tithe Map (1840's map of a whole town) to Commons. The map has already been Geo- referenced at multiple points. Would it be possible to import that Geo referencing data into Commons?
Will commons except a .geotiff file? or can the data be imported in some other way. The file will be close to the 1GB upload limit (manual uploader) in size and will be High Resolution.
Thanks
Jason
The Commons used to have a system for using a KML file to georeference an image using the {{overlay}} template, but the WMF Lab tool it depends on appears to be down. I’ve left a message with the developer [1]. You can read more about the way the system is supposed to work at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Geocoding/Overlay
cheers, Gaurav
[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Dschwen&diff=1... _______________________________________________ Glamtools mailing list Glamtools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glamtools
If we are going to go through the trouble of storing geo-referencing data, we would be silly not to add original projection type when known. There are a few specs on github for ideas. -rhw
On Apr 24, 2015, at 8:28 PM, James Heald j.heald@ucl.ac.uk wrote:
MG_1773.jpg,12,23,11.2,32.2 IMG_1773.jpg,12,23,10.2,31.1
from which there is script that an admin can use to add the data to the map-warper.
This doesn't capture all of the data stored by Klokan Georeferencer -- eg the useful information as to what layer the image was georeferenced against -- but is enough to get the geo-referencing data into the system, and to then get it out in various formats, including serving georeferenced tiles.
Sorry if it's all still a little bit round-the-houses; but with luck everything should get a bit more streamlined, as we get more geared up for large scale import.
(There are already a couple of thousand images on Commons with links to external georeferencing, either at NYPL or the British Library; plus ready to be uploaded to Commons a further 6,000 georeferenced map images from the BL Mechanical Curator collection, just as soon as I've got auto-categorisation a bit more worked out, with that number currently increasing by approximately a further 100 georeferenced images a day https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:British_Library/Mechanical_Curato... ).
As far as I know, nobody has yet actually used the script to import pre-existing georeferencing onto the warper.wmflabs.org server, so I'm quite interested to see how you get on!
Best regards,
James.
There is a slot for that in the Commons {{map}} description template http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Map
using the field "projection",
with a handful of values that have internationalisations defined at
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:I18n/map_projection
But it's not clear whether/how the template should store relevant parameters.
I'm not sure whether the information can be used as a baseline by MapWarper yet. (Tim ?). Or whether there are good scripts available to estimate a projection, given georeferencing points.
-- J.
On 25/04/2015 13:06, Rob H Warren wrote:
If we are going to go through the trouble of storing geo-referencing data, we would be silly not to add original projection type when known. There are a few specs on github for ideas. -rhw
On Apr 24, 2015, at 8:28 PM, James Heald j.heald@ucl.ac.uk wrote:
MG_1773.jpg,12,23,11.2,32.2 IMG_1773.jpg,12,23,10.2,31.1
from which there is script that an admin can use to add the data to the map-warper.
This doesn't capture all of the data stored by Klokan Georeferencer -- eg the useful information as to what layer the image was georeferenced against -- but is enough to get the geo-referencing data into the system, and to then get it out in various formats, including serving georeferenced tiles.
Sorry if it's all still a little bit round-the-houses; but with luck everything should get a bit more streamlined, as we get more geared up for large scale import.
(There are already a couple of thousand images on Commons with links to external georeferencing, either at NYPL or the British Library; plus ready to be uploaded to Commons a further 6,000 georeferenced map images from the BL Mechanical Curator collection, just as soon as I've got auto-categorisation a bit more worked out, with that number currently increasing by approximately a further 100 georeferenced images a day https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:British_Library/Mechanical_Curato... ).
As far as I know, nobody has yet actually used the script to import pre-existing georeferencing onto the warper.wmflabs.org server, so I'm quite interested to see how you get on!
Best regards,
James.
Wikimaps mailing list Wikimaps@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimaps
Mapwarper could do so without too much trouble (Tim?); it is unlikely that the projection can be estimated since an algorithm could not differentiate between error and projection fit. -rhw
On Apr 25, 2015, at 9:18 AM, James Heald j.heald@ucl.ac.uk wrote:
There is a slot for that in the Commons {{map}} description template http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Map
using the field "projection",
with a handful of values that have internationalisations defined at
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:I18n/map_projection
But it's not clear whether/how the template should store relevant parameters.
I'm not sure whether the information can be used as a baseline by MapWarper yet. (Tim ?). Or whether there are good scripts available to estimate a projection, given georeferencing points.
-- J.
On 25/04/2015 13:06, Rob H Warren wrote:
If we are going to go through the trouble of storing geo-referencing data, we would be silly not to add original projection type when known. There are a few specs on github for ideas. -rhw
On Apr 24, 2015, at 8:28 PM, James Heald j.heald@ucl.ac.uk wrote:
MG_1773.jpg,12,23,11.2,32.2 IMG_1773.jpg,12,23,10.2,31.1
from which there is script that an admin can use to add the data to the map-warper.
This doesn't capture all of the data stored by Klokan Georeferencer -- eg the useful information as to what layer the image was georeferenced against -- but is enough to get the geo-referencing data into the system, and to then get it out in various formats, including serving georeferenced tiles.
Sorry if it's all still a little bit round-the-houses; but with luck everything should get a bit more streamlined, as we get more geared up for large scale import.
(There are already a couple of thousand images on Commons with links to external georeferencing, either at NYPL or the British Library; plus ready to be uploaded to Commons a further 6,000 georeferenced map images from the BL Mechanical Curator collection, just as soon as I've got auto-categorisation a bit more worked out, with that number currently increasing by approximately a further 100 georeferenced images a day https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:British_Library/Mechanical_Curato... ).
As far as I know, nobody has yet actually used the script to import pre-existing georeferencing onto the warper.wmflabs.org server, so I'm quite interested to see how you get on!
Best regards,
James.
Wikimaps mailing list Wikimaps@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimaps
Wikimaps mailing list Wikimaps@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimaps
Hi Folks,
James is correct, there are two ways to import existing Ground Control Points. The first is in CSV format for imported maps which has to be run by a server admin - ideally this should be exposed as part of the user interface. This can handle multiple maps and multiple points at once.
The second is doing it by hand via the user interface - a user can paste in coordinates manually, so that would be the easiest and quickest way for individual maps. In the control panel, click "control points" link and then the "add control point manually" button, and paste in the coordinates.
Regarding projections - for many old maps these cannot be used accurately, because paper stretches, the lens on the camera may distort things, the map may have folds or be made of several images, or it may be inaccurately surveyed. In theory it could be possible to reverse engineer the original projection based on the solution of the control points - that could be a fun exercise for someone to do even though it would have no utility for the warper.
Regards,
Tim
On 27 April 2015 at 12:48, Rob H Warren warren@muninn-project.org wrote:
Mapwarper could do so without too much trouble (Tim?); it is unlikely that the projection can be estimated since an algorithm could not differentiate between error and projection fit. -rhw
On Apr 25, 2015, at 9:18 AM, James Heald j.heald@ucl.ac.uk wrote:
There is a slot for that in the Commons {{map}} description template http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Map
using the field "projection",
with a handful of values that have internationalisations defined at
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:I18n/map_projection
But it's not clear whether/how the template should store relevant
parameters.
I'm not sure whether the information can be used as a baseline by
MapWarper yet. (Tim ?). Or whether there are good scripts available to estimate a projection, given georeferencing points.
-- J.
On 25/04/2015 13:06, Rob H Warren wrote:
If we are going to go through the trouble of storing geo-referencing
data, we would be silly not to add original projection type when known. There are a few specs on github for ideas. -rhw
On Apr 24, 2015, at 8:28 PM, James Heald j.heald@ucl.ac.uk wrote:
MG_1773.jpg,12,23,11.2,32.2 IMG_1773.jpg,12,23,10.2,31.1
from which there is script that an admin can use to add the data to
the map-warper.
This doesn't capture all of the data stored by Klokan Georeferencer --
eg the useful information as to what layer the image was georeferenced against -- but is enough to get the geo-referencing data into the system, and to then get it out in various formats, including serving georeferenced tiles.
Sorry if it's all still a little bit round-the-houses; but with luck
everything should get a bit more streamlined, as we get more geared up for large scale import.
(There are already a couple of thousand images on Commons with links
to external georeferencing, either at NYPL or the British Library; plus ready to be uploaded to Commons a further 6,000 georeferenced map images from the BL Mechanical Curator collection, just as soon as I've got auto-categorisation a bit more worked out, with that number currently increasing by approximately a further 100 georeferenced images a day
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:British_Library/Mechanical_Curato... ).
As far as I know, nobody has yet actually used the script to import
pre-existing georeferencing onto the warper.wmflabs.org server, so I'm quite interested to see how you get on!
Best regards,
James.
Wikimaps mailing list Wikimaps@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimaps
Wikimaps mailing list Wikimaps@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimaps
Wikimaps mailing list Wikimaps@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimaps
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions on this subject.
It seems to me that trying to input current data into the map Warper (as described below by James) is probably my best option. I will post again once the map has been uploaded.
Regards
Jason
On Saturday, April 25, 2015 00:28 BST, James Heald j.heald@ucl.ac.uk wrote:
(Cross-posting to the "wikimaps" list, which is the group particularly concerned with old maps).
Hi Jason,
Whilst I'm sure the KML {{overlay}} template mentioned by Gauruv below probably works, it's not really where things are at going forward.
The approach currently being developed for Commons is its own install of the well-known NYPL Map Warper, http://warper.wmflabs.org/ which is being supervised by its original developer Tim Waters under the auspices of the Wikimaps project for old maps, https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wikimaps led by Susanna Ånäs. (Both on the wikimaps list).
There are various ways to get control-point data into the map warper, as discussed by Tim in this post: https://mail-archive.com/maps-l@lists.wikimedia.org/msg01101.html
In this case I would have thought the most straightforward approach
would be first to upload a copy of the tithe map onto Commons in its native format, ie not as a GeoTiff, but as either an ordinary Tiff or a Jpeg, whichever you consider the original format.
If you use the Commons {{Map}} template for the file description, this includes a big friendly blue button to then install the image over on the Map Warper.
As Tim writes, existing control points can then be added from a CSV
file, where the format is simply:
filename,x,y,lat,lon
ie:
IMG_1773.jpg,12,23,11.2,32.2 IMG_1773.jpg,12,23,10.2,31.1
from which there is script that an admin can use to add the data to the map-warper.
This doesn't capture all of the data stored by Klokan Georeferencer -- eg the useful information as to what layer the image was georeferenced against -- but is enough to get the geo-referencing data into the system, and to then get it out in various formats, including serving georeferenced tiles.
Sorry if it's all still a little bit round-the-houses; but with luck everything should get a bit more streamlined, as we get more geared up for large scale import.
(There are already a couple of thousand images on Commons with links to external georeferencing, either at NYPL or the British Library; plus ready to be uploaded to Commons a further 6,000 georeferenced map images from the BL Mechanical Curator collection, just as soon as I've got
auto-categorisation a bit more worked out, with that number currently increasing by approximately a further 100 georeferenced images a day
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:British_Library/Mechanical_Curato... ).
As far as I know, nobody has yet actually used the script to import
pre-existing georeferencing onto the warper.wmflabs.org server, so I'm quite interested to see how you get on!
Best regards,
James.
On 24/04/2015 18:02, Gaurav Vaidya wrote:
Hi Jason!
On 24 Apr 2015, at 8:30 am, Jason J. Evans jason.evans@llgc.org.uk wrote:
Hello,
I would be grateful for some advise on the following matter. The NLW is interested in uploading a large Tithe Map (1840's map of a whole town) to Commons. The map has already been Geo- referenced at multiple points. Would it be possible to import that Geo referencing data into Commons?
Will commons except a .geotiff file? or can the data be imported in some other way. The file will be close to the 1GB upload limit (manual uploader) in size and will be High Resolution.
Thanks
Jason
The Commons used to have a system for using a KML file to georeference an image using the {{overlay}} template, but the WMF Lab tool it depends on appears to be down. I’ve left a message with the developer [1]. You can read more about the way the system is supposed to work at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Geocoding/Overlay
cheers, Gaurav
[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Dschwen&diff=1... _______________________________________________ Glamtools mailing list Glamtools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glamtools
Glamtools mailing list Glamtools@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/glamtools