Hello, fellow Apiary lovers!
Cindy has done a lot of work behind the scenes to get WikiApiary upgraded to 1.39 and we've moved the worker bees back to Wikimedia Cloud Services so that they don't compete for CPU and bandwidth with the website itself.
As a result, I've brought wikiapiary.com back online.
We'd like to ask for help from other people now.
Since a big part of the problem with WikiApiary is database timeouts, Cindy and I are wondering if those of you with experience with SMW and ElasticStore would help think changing the back end from SQLStore to ElasticStore would help.
Of course, we would need some help with this. Ideally, some brave soul would volunteer to do the conversion, but, if that isn't possible, a step by step cookbook would be nice.
Finally, we think that the site's appearance could use some work. Cindy suggested switching to Chameleon (and has it installed as an option), but there is some general tidying that needs to be done.
Have a beautiful day!
Mark.
-- Mark A. Hershberger NicheWork LLC 717-271-1084
Please let me if you need help on the site's appearance. While I don't have experience with Chameleon, I am familiar with making template styles and general wiki editing. If it is okay, I can update and tweak some of the templates to use Bootstrap instead. Here's the one that I am testing with Template:Skin : https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/User:Alistair3149/sandbox/skin/template
On Wed, 2023-04-05 at 20:50 +0000, alistair31494322@gmail.com wrote:
If it is okay, I can update and tweak some of the templates to use Bootstrap instead. Here's the one that I am testing with Template:Skin : https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/User:Alistair3149/sandbox/skin/template
I like it.
I feel silly, but, since the default display does not emphasize the message directing you to the chameleon display, I didn't see the effect initially.
For others who may have missed it see https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/User:Alistair3149/sandbox/skin/template?useskin=...
Compare with the current page: https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/Skin:Vector
I think Cindy was thinking about doing this work, but the upgrades took most of the time she had.
It would help if you could update the site so we can switch to chameleon and, maybe later, something with Bootstrap 5.
Thanks, alistair3149*! And welcome. :)
Mark.
Thanks for the reply. I can help with updating the site and working my way through the templates in my sandbox.
May I ask what is your plan regarding deploying Chameleon? It seems the site content relied on styles from Zurb's Foundation Framework from Foreground, but those styles are somewhat broken now.
On a side note, would it be possible to add the bot edit flag to Audit Bee? The RecentChanges bot filter doesn't apply to it for some reason, and it is flooding the RC log.
On Thu, 2023-04-06 at 19:02 +0000, alistair 3149 wrote:
May I ask what is your plan regarding deploying Chameleon? It seems the site content relied on styles from Zurb's Foundation Framework from Foreground, but those styles are somewhat broken now.
I really don't know anything about the styling of the wiki. I think Jamie did most of it before he left, but perhaps Karsten or someone else here has an idea.
I didn't really have a plan for the skin right now. I was just basing what I said on what I understood from Cindy about the support for Foreground vs Chameleon.
From your page on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alistair3149 it looks like you've updated been maintaining StarCitizen wiki.
I'm very interested in any improvments you think that WikiApiary can adopt.
On a side note, would it be possible to add the bot edit flag to Audit Bee? The RecentChanges bot filter doesn't apply to it for some reason, and it is flooding the RC log.
Yes. I thought that had been done already when Cindy was working on it.
I went and looked at the code, though. https://github.com/WikiApiary/wikibees/blob/master/audit-bee/audit-bee.py#L3...
Since the AuditBee is using the pfautoedit api, that call would need to support it. I just verified with Yaron that the pfautoedit API doesn't support the bot flag. I've created a bug for this. https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T334256
Thanks for looking into the bot issue!
I agree with Cindy on the decision, Chameleon is widely deployed (especially with SMW and enterprise wikis) and it's likely that it'll receive consistent and reliable support.
For improvements, it might be more accessible and manageable if we can put up a talk page on WikiApiary as a RfC for it, so visitors can chime in and discuss on the suggestions.
If you don't mind, I can help with the styling of the wiki. However, that will probably be a while since I have to rewrite the templates into Bootstrap. Once the templates are implemented, the content and the skin will use the same design system, then we can look into making visual changes.
On Thu, 2023-04-06 at 23:13 +0000, alistair 3149 wrote:
For improvements, it might be more accessible and manageable if we can put up a talk page on WikiApiary as a RfC for it, so visitors can chime in and discuss on the suggestions.
That sounds like a great idea. If you can write up your ideas on the wiki--say under your user page or at https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/WikiApiary:RFC--then I can work with other people to bring attention to your ideas and further the discussion.
I understand this is going to take some time, but I really appreciate the effort you've put in so far.
Thank you,
Mark.
I'm totally happy to see WikiApiary switch to Chameleon (I mean, it's wonderful that it's getting attention in any way!). But I just wonder what the issues are with Foreground. Can we make sure they're documented on its Phab board https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/view/5076/? I've recently started doing a bit of work on it, in its new home on Gerrit, because I use it for a couple of wikis and wanted to fix some small things. Mostly it seems to work fine.
—Sam
On 7/4/23 07:13, alistair 3149 wrote:
Thanks for looking into the bot issue!
I agree with Cindy on the decision, Chameleon is widely deployed (especially with SMW and enterprise wikis) and it's likely that it'll receive consistent and reliable support.
For improvements, it might be more accessible and manageable if we can put up a talk page on WikiApiary as a RfC for it, so visitors can chime in and discuss on the suggestions.
If you don't mind, I can help with the styling of the wiki. However, that will probably be a while since I have to rewrite the templates into Bootstrap. Once the templates are implemented, the content and the skin will use the same design system, then we can look into making visual changes. _______________________________________________ Wikiapiary mailing list --wikiapiary@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email towikiapiary-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
On Fri, 2023-04-07 at 09:24 +0800, Sam Wilson wrote:
[...] I just wonder what the issues are with Foreground. Can we make sure they're documented on its Phab board?
I am not familiar with what the issues are. From what I've been told, it seems like development has not kept up with internal changes in MediaWiki.
If you're starting to work on it, though, that may no longer be an issue.
Mark.
Same as what Mark mentioned, Foundation wasn't maintained. I have other concerns with its future as well.
1. Zurb Foundation Framework (the front-end framework implemented by Foundation skin) hasn't been in active development for a while.
2. Foundation didn't have an active maintainer, and it had trouble keeping up with MW releases. From experience, maintaining and developing a MW skin can be challenging, and it gets exponentially more difficult with extensions.
Is it not maintained? There was a release last year: https://github.com/foundation/foundation-sites/releases/
Or do you mean the version used by Foreground? It's currently 5.5.3, released on Oct 7, 2015. It's the latest of v5. Probably does have issues!
On 7/4/23 10:22, alistair 3149 wrote:
Same as what Mark mentioned, Foundation wasn't maintained. I have other concerns with its future as well.
Zurb Foundation Framework (the front-end framework implemented by Foundation skin) hasn't been in active development for a while.
Foundation didn't have an active maintainer, and it had trouble keeping up with MW releases. From experience, maintaining and developing a MW skin can be challenging, and it gets exponentially more difficult with extensions.
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Hello and thanks for the site improvements!
I'm not sure if the skin is really the problem here.
On website pages, the information was previously distributed in tabs, but the tabs are not rendered anymore. Instead, the tab contents are placed unstyled one after the other vertically (which is a good fallback). This may be some broken extension or script. Or maybe templates like https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/Template:Website were (ab)using HTML elements that the foreground skin was automatically converting to tabs, but changes in the skin made it no longer work...
Looking at the developer console of my browser, I see some requests that lead to 404 errors, for example: https://wikiapiary.com/apiary/graph/graph.js, although I'm not sure if that has anything to do with tabs, though.
I've seen WikiApiary has Extension:Header Tabs installed, but it doesn't seem to be using it. I've updated the Template:Website/sandbox https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/Template:Website/sandbox to use those tabs and they are functional. We can switch to this use of tabs that looks easier than trying to fix what was being used previously to render those tabs.
Best regards,
-- Jesús Martínez Ciencia Al Poder
@Sam yes Foundation is using an old version of the framework
@Ciencia Yes you're right, tabs rely on some existing components from Foundation and it is broken after the update. It is why I thought it was a skin issue, as it is a utility provided by Foundation before.
We can probably switch to header tab as an interim option if we are keeping Foundation at the meantime. Chameleon does have native tab support through Bootstrap, but it won't work on non-Bootstrap skin such as Foundation.
How have Foreground/Foundation tabs worked in the past? The example given https://foreground.wikiproject.net/wiki/Tabs in the skin documentation doesn't work for me, and uses anchor tags that don't render in MediaWiki.
Oh, actually looking more closely, could this be a config change? $wgForegroundFeatures['enableTabs'] needs to be true. (And, I'm not sure it's common knowledge, but it appears that enabling that actually means all anchor tags are able to be written in wikitext anywhere, making things like <a onclick="alert('foo');">bar</a> allowed. This seems like a bad idea.)
And (sorry, I'm rather thinking aloud here…) is Template:Website https://wikiapiary.com/w/index.php?title=Template:Website&action=edit even using tabs? It looks like there are section elements in a section-container, and I can't find what that does on the Foundation docs https://get.foundation/sites/docs-v5/.
I'm probably just confused. :-)
On 11/4/23 01:02, alistair 3149 wrote:
@Sam yes Foundation is using an old version of the framework
@Ciencia Yes you're right, tabs rely on some existing components from Foundation and it is broken after the update. It is why I thought it was a skin issue, as it is a utility provided by Foundation before.
We can probably switch to header tab as an interim option if we are keeping Foundation at the meantime. Chameleon does have native tab support through Bootstrap, but it won't work on non-Bootstrap skin such as Foundation. _______________________________________________ Wikiapiary mailing list --wikiapiary@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email towikiapiary-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Hi Sam!,
Yes, Template:Website was using tabs. You can see them from a random old snapshot on the web archive:
http://web.archive.org/web/20210120213829/https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/SmashP...
Best regards.
-- Jesús Martínez Ciencia Al Poder
El mar, 11 abr 2023 a las 4:59, Sam Wilson (sam@samwilson.id.au) escribió:
How have Foreground/Foundation tabs worked in the past? The example given in the skin documentation doesn't work for me, and uses anchor tags that don't render in MediaWiki.
Oh, actually looking more closely, could this be a config change? $wgForegroundFeatures['enableTabs'] needs to be true. (And, I'm not sure it's common knowledge, but it appears that enabling that actually means all anchor tags are able to be written in wikitext anywhere, making things like <a onclick="alert('foo');">bar</a> allowed. This seems like a bad idea.)
And (sorry, I'm rather thinking aloud here…) is Template:Website even using tabs? It looks like there are section elements in a section-container, and I can't find what that does on the Foundation docs.
I'm probably just confused. :-)
On 11/4/23 01:02, alistair 3149 wrote:
@Sam yes Foundation is using an old version of the framework
@Ciencia Yes you're right, tabs rely on some existing components from Foundation and it is broken after the update. It is why I thought it was a skin issue, as it is a utility provided by Foundation before.
We can probably switch to header tab as an interim option if we are keeping Foundation at the meantime. Chameleon does have native tab support through Bootstrap, but it won't work on non-Bootstrap skin such as Foundation. _______________________________________________ Wikiapiary mailing list -- wikiapiary@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikiapiary-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikiapiary mailing list -- wikiapiary@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email to wikiapiary-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Ah, thanks for the link!
And I should've been clearer: I know there are /meant/ to be tabs and that there /were/ at some point. The thing I'm confused about is where they come from: the template creates elements with class .section, but Foundation has .tabs with .tabs-content etc. and doesn't seem to have anything called a section at all. I assumed the tabs would be disappearing because some CSS file or other in the skin was not being loaded, but it doesn't look like that's the case.
I'm trying to replicate the issue locally, but it's all working correctly, annoyingly! :-)
Anyway, maybe it's good for WikiApiary to switch to a new skin. I'll keep hacking on Foreground regardless.
On 12/4/23 21:18, Jesús Martínez wrote:
Hi Sam!,
Yes,Template:Website was using tabs. You can see them from a random old snapshot on the web archive:
http://web.archive.org/web/20210120213829/https://wikiapiary.com/wiki/SmashP...
Best regards.
-- Jesús Martínez Ciencia Al Poder
El mar, 11 abr 2023 a las 4:59, Sam Wilson (sam@samwilson.id.au) escribió:
How have Foreground/Foundation tabs worked in the past? The example given in the skin documentation doesn't work for me, and uses anchor tags that don't render in MediaWiki.
Oh, actually looking more closely, could this be a config change? $wgForegroundFeatures['enableTabs'] needs to be true. (And, I'm not sure it's common knowledge, but it appears that enabling that actually means all anchor tags are able to be written in wikitext anywhere, making things like <a onclick="alert('foo');">bar</a> allowed. This seems like a bad idea.)
And (sorry, I'm rather thinking aloud here…) isTemplate:Website even using tabs? It looks like there are section elements in a section-container, and I can't find what that does on the Foundation docs.
I'm probably just confused. :-)
On 11/4/23 01:02, alistair 3149 wrote:
@Sam yes Foundation is using an old version of the framework
@Ciencia Yes you're right, tabs rely on some existing components from Foundation and it is broken after the update. It is why I thought it was a skin issue, as it is a utility provided by Foundation before.
We can probably switch to header tab as an interim option if we are keeping Foundation at the meantime. Chameleon does have native tab support through Bootstrap, but it won't work on non-Bootstrap skin such as Foundation. _______________________________________________ Wikiapiary mailing list --wikiapiary@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email towikiapiary-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
Wikiapiary mailing list --wikiapiary@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe send an email towikiapiary-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
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Hi.
I know this problem may be a little out-of-date. But after realizing that the database was locked (it says "We're moving homes") and I couldn't edit anymore, I decided to spend some time to find out the reason, and I succeed.
After searching the relevant CSS classes `.section-container.auto`, I found a feature called **sections** in Foundation 4, but not Foundation 5: https://web.archive.org/web/20130302213242/http://foundation.zurb.com/docs/components/section.html
**Foundation** is a library used by the default skin **Foreground**, so I guess upgrading from Foundation 4 to 5 breaks the tabs.
Regards, TripleCamera2022.
Sam Wilson wrote:
Ah, thanks for the link!
And I should've been clearer: I know there are /meant/ to be tabs and that there /were/ at some point. The thing I'm confused about is where they come from: the template creates elements with class .section, but Foundation has .tabs with .tabs-content etc. and doesn't seem to have anything called a section at all. I assumed the tabs would be disappearing because some CSS file or other in the skin was not being loaded, but it doesn't look like that's the case.
I'm trying to replicate the issue locally, but it's all working correctly, annoyingly! :-)
Anyway, maybe it's good for WikiApiary to switch to a new skin. I'll keep hacking on Foreground regardless.
wikiapiary@lists.wikimedia.org