Hi Aaron,
Most RFCs are about issues that most editors don't have strong opinions about.
The trouble with an unbiased sample is that running a referendum is only really effective when you've debated endlessly, you can all agree what the issue is that divides you, but you can't get consensus on a solution.
The drawback of a referendum is that you could probably get huge yes majorities for each of the following statements
1 Do you agree that we should allow legitimate researchers to contact Wikimedians via this site and ask them to take part in research?
2 Should there be some sort of filter or opt out mechanism to limit the frequency that individual wikimedians are so contacted?
That would still leave an open question as to how much contact is reasonable and by which mechanisms. I think that an RFC would be an effective way to hold such a discussion, though I will concede the possibility that the research lobby being somewhat more organised would have undue weight in such a discussion.
WSC
On 15 December 2011 14:44, Aaron Halfaker aaron.halfaker@gmail.com wrote:
WSC,
I don't think an RFC would be an appropriate mechanism for determining the community's feelings towards proposals that most editors don't have strong feelings about. See, the problem with the discussion style of poll is that it is strongly biased towards those who hold (or will form) a strong opinion on the matter. Although I've seen this to be (generally) a very efficient mechanism for making decisions about content and policy in Wikipedia, I'd like to assert that what we really need is an unbiased sample of editor opinion -- or at least as close to truly unbiased as we can get.
-Aaron
On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 6:52 AM, WereSpielChequers < werespielchequers@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Mayo,
I rather suspect that there isn't consensus on this committee to restrict researchers in their requesting community members to complete research questionnaires. However I do think there is significant support in the community to enforce existing spam policies on people indiscriminately approaching wikimedians to complete research surveys. Sarah Stierch's survey was targetted at the small minority of editors who have self identified as female, and the recent newpage patrol survey was supposed to be targetted at people active in the new page patrol process. I would consider them to be archetypical targetted surveys by Wikimedians asking relevant questions. Berkman by contrast was very broadly targeted, run by a third party and not obviously relevant to Wikimedia.
I came to the conclusion that we would need some sort of throttle on research surveying of wikimedians long before I drafted the Omnibus proposal back in July, so the trigger for my writing that was not Berkman, though obviously it was the trigger for resurrecting the idea. There have been many discussions that I've seen on wiki and on the mailing lists about various research surveys, and I'm fairly sure there is a consensus that some research is OK provided we can control the quantity or people can opt out of it. The difficult thing will be working out the acceptable level of research surveying before the community considers it to have been exceeded. Another difficulty will be to introduce a throttle system that in the longterm both the community and the research community can live with. For example there have been proposals in the past for an opt out or even an opt in mechanism, I consider that such proposals would be workable from the community's point of view, but I'm not sure that we'd get viable research samples, especially if the research was becoming more and more intensely targeted on a fast dwindling band of "consenting" wikimedians.
However if the rest of RCom considers that it isn't part of RCom's remit to limit the amount of surveying by bonafide researchers, and if some of you think that the community is broadly accepting of research; Then perhaps the best option would be to file an RFC on this and see what the community thinks.
WSC
On 14 December 2011 16:24, Fuster, Mayo Mayo.Fuster@eui.eu wrote:
Hello!
I hope you are fine.
Dario I already moved in order that Goran has access to the survey.
WSC your comments and suggestions seems to strongly assume that there is a consensus on the need to "limiting the amount of surveying that Wikimedians are subjected to". Which is the base for this statement?. Do we have any strong indicator to stand that there is too much request or that this is not the case?. At least on the base of Berkman episode, I would not arrive to that conclusion. Certainly, it does not represent my interpretation: I don't think in the community there is a predominance of a rejection attitude. To me developing research is a way to contribute and beneficial to Wikipedia - but again, beyond each impression on community position and each own personal position on this. we don't have a strong indicator or elaborate analysis of the approach of the community toward research.
In something I think we need to reflect on is that in this stage of things - and from Berkman and Sarah experience- researchers can extract the conclusion that it is better to not get in contact with Rcom and it is better not to consult the community on your recruitment method - you would save much more time and effort . There is something that it is not working, if this is the case. In this regard, I would not think in terms of how to control and limit the amount of research developed (also because it would be very very difficult) but instead value and incentive that it is done in a way in concordance with how Wikipedians view about how should be done (in terms of recruitment process, in terms of open data, in terms of assuring the results arrive to the community, in terms of addressing questions relevant for wikimedia goals, etc) and that is design in a way that could be as much beneficial for the community as possible.
Cheers! Mayo
«·´`·.(*·.¸(`·.¸ ¸.·´)¸.·*).·´`·» «·´¨*·¸¸« Mayo Fuster Morell ».¸.·*¨`·» «·´`·.(¸.·´(¸.·* *·.¸)`·.¸).·´`·»
Research Digital Commons Governance: http://www.onlinecreation.info
Fellow Berkman center for Internet and Society. Harvard University. Postdoctoral Researcher. Institute of Govern and Public Policies. Autonomous University of Barcelona. Visiting scholar. Internet Interdisciplinary Institute. Open University of Catalonia (UOC). Member Research Committee. Wikimedia Foundation Ph.D European University Institute Visiting researcher (2008). School of information. University of California, Berkeley.
E-mail: mayo.fuster@eui.eu E-mail: mayofm@cyber.law.harvard.edu Twitter/Identica: Lilaroja Skype: mayoneti Phone United States: 001 - 8576548231 Phone Spanish State: 0034-648877748
Berkman Center 23 Everett Street, 2nd Floor Cambridge, MA 02138 +1 (617) 495-7547 (Phone) +1 (617) 495-7641 (Fax)
Personal Postal Address USA: The Acetarium http://www.acetarium.com/ 265 Elm Street - 4 Somerville, MA, USA 02144 ________________________________________ From: rcom-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [ rcom-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of WereSpielChequers [ werespielchequers@gmail.com] Sent: 14 December 2011 16:09 To: The Wikimedia Foundation Research Committee mailing list Subject: Re: [RCom-l] The tragedy of the Commons
Hi Yaroslav,
While I didn't see the actual survey I'm aware that it was run. I suspect that the community would have little problem differentiating between a Wikimedian surveying a targetted group of Wikimedians on currently contentious matters internal to the community as opposed to an outside researcher surveying a large proportion of the community and perhaps asking questions that don't seem very relevant. Sarah's survey could have been done as part of an Omnibus, and I'm sure if we had an Omnibus survey it would be an opportunity to do a followup.
Alternatively we could see it as part of my alternative option of targeted research - unlike the Berkman survey Sarah did her targetting in such a way that she wasn't blocked as spam.....
WSC
On 14 December 2011 14:58, Yaroslav M. Blanter <putevod@mccme.rumailto: putevod@mccme.ru> wrote: On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 13:46:48 +0000, WereSpielChequers <werespielchequers@gmail.commailto:werespielchequers@gmail.com> wrote:
The controversy over Berkman is not in my view primarily a
communication
issue and it certainly isn't about the legitimacy of that survey. I
believe
that the community trusts RCom as a regulator of research to know
whether
research is legitimate or not.
A big part of the controversy is over advertising, and I'm not
convinced
that you can design a banner ad for a third party research survey that isn't seen by some as advertising for that third party. An Omnibus
survey
could be a Wikimedia one and therefore I would argue an internal ad
rather
than a third party one. Perhaps that isn't our only option, and maybe
there
are alternative ways to solve that, one way would be to change policy
to
allow advertising for bona fide research. But that would be a difficult
one
to sell to the community, particularly on the heels of a fundraising
drive
where "Wikipedia doesn't take ads" was a core message.
The other aspect of being a regulator of research is the issue of how
we
control the amount of research requests made to the community. To my
mind
that is fundamental to what we should be doing, and it is a major
reason
for my being on this committee. But this is almost an opposite thought process to "promoting research".
There are two proposals that I've made as to how we do this, one would
be
to contact everyone once a year with an Omnibus survey, the other
rather
more complex one is to throttle back research surveying by volume and
limit
each campaign to a small subset of the community. The two approaches
can be
hybridised by rewarding institutions that collaborate by allowing them
to
use our systems to approach a larger proportion of editors. One reason
why
I was opposed to the Berkman survey was that it was the worst of both worlds - one single research project going to all or almost all of our
most
surveyed community.
I'm not convinced that the community currently has confidence in RCom
to
regulate the amount of research requests that wikimedians and
especially
English language Wikipedians are exposed to. Nor am I convinced that everyone on this committee regards that as our responsibility. To my
mind
this gives us a couple of possibilities, one would be to try and agree
a
mechanism for limiting the amount of surveying that Wikimedians are subjected to, and then sell that to the community via a request for comment. One option in any such request for comment could be for the community to agree not to put any constraints on researchers, but I'd
be
surprised if that option got consensus however strongly it was promoted
by
some members of RCom. The other possibility would be to clarify that
the
remit of this committee is to promote legitimate research by vetting proposals and otherwise communicating with the community; and to inform
the
community that if it wants to put constraints on legitimate researchers contacting wikimedians via the site then it needs a an additional
process
other than RCom.
WereSpielChequers
Thanks for your ideas, which I find very much reasonable. I have an immediate objection though. Not all research goes through RCom, and we have no means to stop any single person or organization from sending a hundred messages to talk pages. For instance, recently it was a survey with the purpose of understanding the role of the female editors, or whatever the purpose was (It is difficult for me to find a link immediately, but it can be done, I guess it was run by Sarah Stierch and colleagues). They did not bother to go to RCom, and I could imagine what the response were if we demanded that for instance this survey would become part of Omnibus. Since it looks almost inevitable that we have to go and ask the community opinions at some stage, we probably also need to ask this question: Should every research requiring subject recruitment be regulated (reviewed) by RCom in advance, or may be the community (first robably of en.wp) just does not want any regulation of the subject recruitment.
Cheers Yaroslav
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