Due to ongoing issues with ffmpeg2theora & upcoming server upgrades, I'm planning to accelerate our migration from Ogg Theora video output to WebM VP8: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T172445
== When will it change? ==
Sometime in August 2017 as schedules permit, unless surprises pop up in final testing.
== What will change? ==
Folks using Chrome and Firefox may not notice any difference -- these browsers have used native WebM playback by default for some time. "Ogg" will disappear from the list of optionally-playable and downloadable formats.
In Safari, IE, or Edge where the 'ogv.js' compatibility shim is used, you will see videos automatically show up in WebM mode instead of Ogg mode.
There is a tradeoff: higher quality & lower bandwidth use, but higher CPU usage. On very slow computers or at very high resolutions, you may hit CPU limits at one resolution step lower than with Ogg.
== Why are we making this change? ==
* Eventually we need to go to WebM to support adaptive streaming, so this was always planned for the long term... * For best quality we use an unreleased version of libogg and ffmpeg2theora, but there are still some bugs in there and we routinely get reports of odd hangs or crashes. * Ops is updating the servers, and continuing to maintain the custom packages that are still crashy is getting to be problematic. * Dropping the Ogg format for video will free up disk space and and CPU time, and should result in faster turnaround for derived file generation.
== What about Ogg audio? ==
Ogg is still being used for audio, and will not be affected.
-- brion
Hi Brion,
Thanks for the announcement. Out of curiosity, why VP8 instead of VP9?
Pine
On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Brion Vibber bvibber@wikimedia.org wrote:
Due to ongoing issues with ffmpeg2theora & upcoming server upgrades, I'm planning to accelerate our migration from Ogg Theora video output to WebM VP8: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T172445
== When will it change? ==
Sometime in August 2017 as schedules permit, unless surprises pop up in final testing.
== What will change? ==
Folks using Chrome and Firefox may not notice any difference -- these browsers have used native WebM playback by default for some time. "Ogg" will disappear from the list of optionally-playable and downloadable formats.
In Safari, IE, or Edge where the 'ogv.js' compatibility shim is used, you will see videos automatically show up in WebM mode instead of Ogg mode.
There is a tradeoff: higher quality & lower bandwidth use, but higher CPU usage. On very slow computers or at very high resolutions, you may hit CPU limits at one resolution step lower than with Ogg.
== Why are we making this change? ==
- Eventually we need to go to WebM to support adaptive streaming, so this
was always planned for the long term...
- For best quality we use an unreleased version of libogg and
ffmpeg2theora, but there are still some bugs in there and we routinely get reports of odd hangs or crashes.
- Ops is updating the servers, and continuing to maintain the custom
packages that are still crashy is getting to be problematic.
- Dropping the Ogg format for video will free up disk space and and CPU
time, and should result in faster turnaround for derived file generation.
== What about Ogg audio? ==
Ogg is still being used for audio, and will not be affected.
-- brion
Multimedia mailing list Multimedia@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/multimedia
On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 1:30 PM, Pine W wiki.pine@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Brion,
Thanks for the announcement. Out of curiosity, why VP8 instead of VP9?
We already have WebM VP8 output, so don't have to generate anything new -- they'll play back immediately once the switch is flipped. :)
VP9 encoding is also much slower still, so I'm waiting on adding it until we have a combination of the next major update to libvpx (not yet released, but has HUGE improvements to multithreaded encoder) and/or reworking our transcoding system to "chunk" things into small pieces that can be farmed out to many processes.
-- brion
Out of curiosity, is there any plan to move audio to opus at some point? (As someone not super well versed) it looks like a superior codec by every measure, and browser support appears similar.
-- brian
On Thursday, August 3, 2017, Brion Vibber bvibber@wikimedia.org wrote:
Due to ongoing issues with ffmpeg2theora & upcoming server upgrades, I'm
planning to accelerate our migration from Ogg Theora video output to WebM VP8: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T172445
== When will it change? == Sometime in August 2017 as schedules permit, unless surprises pop up in
final testing.
== What will change? == Folks using Chrome and Firefox may not notice any difference -- these
browsers have used native WebM playback by default for some time. "Ogg" will disappear from the list of optionally-playable and downloadable formats.
In Safari, IE, or Edge where the 'ogv.js' compatibility shim is used, you
will see videos automatically show up in WebM mode instead of Ogg mode.
There is a tradeoff: higher quality & lower bandwidth use, but higher CPU
usage. On very slow computers or at very high resolutions, you may hit CPU limits at one resolution step lower than with Ogg.
== Why are we making this change? ==
- Eventually we need to go to WebM to support adaptive streaming, so this
was always planned for the long term...
- For best quality we use an unreleased version of libogg and
ffmpeg2theora, but there are still some bugs in there and we routinely get reports of odd hangs or crashes.
- Ops is updating the servers, and continuing to maintain the custom
packages that are still crashy is getting to be problematic.
- Dropping the Ogg format for video will free up disk space and and CPU
time, and should result in faster turnaround for derived file generation.
== What about Ogg audio? == Ogg is still being used for audio, and will not be affected. -- brion
Opus is a definite possibility for audio output; it's very good quality and can use less bandwidth than Vorbis. However I'm waiting for the browser support story outside of Firefox/Chrome to settle down a bit more:
* Edge supports Opus in WebM container but only in MSE mode * Safari beta supports Opus in WebRTC streams but not in <audio> or <video> * Chrome and Firefox are experimenting with Opus in ISO BMFF (MP4) streams as well, which might be more amenable for MS/Apple to support...
There's also the possibility of MP3 output for audio, now that patents have expired. This has even greater browser support, and would allow us to skip loading of the ogv.js shim for audio on Safari/IE/Edge.
-- brion
On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Brian Wolff bawolff@gmail.com wrote:
Out of curiosity, is there any plan to move audio to opus at some point? (As someone not super well versed) it looks like a superior codec by every measure, and browser support appears similar.
-- brian
On Thursday, August 3, 2017, Brion Vibber bvibber@wikimedia.org wrote:
Due to ongoing issues with ffmpeg2theora & upcoming server upgrades, I'm
planning to accelerate our migration from Ogg Theora video output to WebM VP8: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T172445
== When will it change? == Sometime in August 2017 as schedules permit, unless surprises pop up in
final testing.
== What will change? == Folks using Chrome and Firefox may not notice any difference -- these
browsers have used native WebM playback by default for some time. "Ogg" will disappear from the list of optionally-playable and downloadable formats.
In Safari, IE, or Edge where the 'ogv.js' compatibility shim is used,
you will see videos automatically show up in WebM mode instead of Ogg mode.
There is a tradeoff: higher quality & lower bandwidth use, but higher
CPU usage. On very slow computers or at very high resolutions, you may hit CPU limits at one resolution step lower than with Ogg.
== Why are we making this change? ==
- Eventually we need to go to WebM to support adaptive streaming, so
this was always planned for the long term...
- For best quality we use an unreleased version of libogg and
ffmpeg2theora, but there are still some bugs in there and we routinely get reports of odd hangs or crashes.
- Ops is updating the servers, and continuing to maintain the custom
packages that are still crashy is getting to be problematic.
- Dropping the Ogg format for video will free up disk space and and CPU
time, and should result in faster turnaround for derived file generation.
== What about Ogg audio? == Ogg is still being used for audio, and will not be affected. -- brion
Multimedia mailing list Multimedia@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/multimedia
Hurrah!! Thank you, Brion and on and on.
On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Brion Vibber bvibber@wikimedia.org wrote:
Due to ongoing issues with ffmpeg2theora & upcoming server upgrades, I'm planning to accelerate our migration from Ogg Theora video output to WebM VP8: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T172445
== When will it change? ==
Sometime in August 2017 as schedules permit, unless surprises pop up in final testing.
== What will change? ==
Folks using Chrome and Firefox may not notice any difference -- these browsers have used native WebM playback by default for some time. "Ogg" will disappear from the list of optionally-playable and downloadable formats.
In Safari, IE, or Edge where the 'ogv.js' compatibility shim is used, you will see videos automatically show up in WebM mode instead of Ogg mode.
There is a tradeoff: higher quality & lower bandwidth use, but higher CPU usage. On very slow computers or at very high resolutions, you may hit CPU limits at one resolution step lower than with Ogg.
== Why are we making this change? ==
- Eventually we need to go to WebM to support adaptive streaming, so this
was always planned for the long term...
- For best quality we use an unreleased version of libogg and
ffmpeg2theora, but there are still some bugs in there and we routinely get reports of odd hangs or crashes.
- Ops is updating the servers, and continuing to maintain the custom
packages that are still crashy is getting to be problematic.
- Dropping the Ogg format for video will free up disk space and and CPU
time, and should result in faster turnaround for derived file generation.
== What about Ogg audio? ==
Ogg is still being used for audio, and will not be affected.
-- brion
Multimedia mailing list Multimedia@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/multimedia
This is happening now!
Video playback in Safari/IE/Edge now defaults to WebM instead of Ogg, and if all goes well, I'll disable the .ogv derivatives tomorrow.
Please give a shout at any unexpected problems.
-- brion
On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Brion Vibber bvibber@wikimedia.org wrote:
Due to ongoing issues with ffmpeg2theora & upcoming server upgrades, I'm planning to accelerate our migration from Ogg Theora video output to WebM VP8: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T172445
== When will it change? ==
Sometime in August 2017 as schedules permit, unless surprises pop up in final testing.
== What will change? ==
Folks using Chrome and Firefox may not notice any difference -- these browsers have used native WebM playback by default for some time. "Ogg" will disappear from the list of optionally-playable and downloadable formats.
In Safari, IE, or Edge where the 'ogv.js' compatibility shim is used, you will see videos automatically show up in WebM mode instead of Ogg mode.
There is a tradeoff: higher quality & lower bandwidth use, but higher CPU usage. On very slow computers or at very high resolutions, you may hit CPU limits at one resolution step lower than with Ogg.
== Why are we making this change? ==
- Eventually we need to go to WebM to support adaptive streaming, so this
was always planned for the long term...
- For best quality we use an unreleased version of libogg and
ffmpeg2theora, but there are still some bugs in there and we routinely get reports of odd hangs or crashes.
- Ops is updating the servers, and continuing to maintain the custom
packages that are still crashy is getting to be problematic.
- Dropping the Ogg format for video will free up disk space and and CPU
time, and should result in faster turnaround for derived file generation.
== What about Ogg audio? ==
Ogg is still being used for audio, and will not be affected.
-- brion
On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Brion Vibber bvibber@wikimedia.org wrote:
This is happening now!
Video playback in Safari/IE/Edge now defaults to WebM instead of Ogg, and if all goes well, I'll disable the .ogv derivatives tomorrow.
Ok, this has now been done. Existing .ogv derivative files will continue to exist for a while to ensure cached page views don't encounter any surprises, but they will be deleted later, probably after 30 days.
Note that .ogg or .ogv video *uploads* will continue to work, and you may continue to upload .ogv videos if you have them -- they get automatically converted to WebM derivatives for playback.
For our friends in ops, it should now be safe to update video scalers without worrying about the buggy ffmpeg2theora package. :)
-- brion
Please give a shout at any unexpected problems.
-- brion
On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Brion Vibber bvibber@wikimedia.org wrote:
Due to ongoing issues with ffmpeg2theora & upcoming server upgrades, I'm planning to accelerate our migration from Ogg Theora video output to WebM VP8: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T172445
== When will it change? ==
Sometime in August 2017 as schedules permit, unless surprises pop up in final testing.
== What will change? ==
Folks using Chrome and Firefox may not notice any difference -- these browsers have used native WebM playback by default for some time. "Ogg" will disappear from the list of optionally-playable and downloadable formats.
In Safari, IE, or Edge where the 'ogv.js' compatibility shim is used, you will see videos automatically show up in WebM mode instead of Ogg mode.
There is a tradeoff: higher quality & lower bandwidth use, but higher CPU usage. On very slow computers or at very high resolutions, you may hit CPU limits at one resolution step lower than with Ogg.
== Why are we making this change? ==
- Eventually we need to go to WebM to support adaptive streaming, so this
was always planned for the long term...
- For best quality we use an unreleased version of libogg and
ffmpeg2theora, but there are still some bugs in there and we routinely get reports of odd hangs or crashes.
- Ops is updating the servers, and continuing to maintain the custom
packages that are still crashy is getting to be problematic.
- Dropping the Ogg format for video will free up disk space and and CPU
time, and should result in faster turnaround for derived file generation.
== What about Ogg audio? ==
Ogg is still being used for audio, and will not be affected.
-- brion
Congrats on this milestone Brion!
Op 25 aug. 2017, om 01:25 heeft Brion Vibber bvibber@wikimedia.org het volgende geschreven:
On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Brion Vibber <bvibber@wikimedia.org mailto:bvibber@wikimedia.org> wrote: This is happening now!
Video playback in Safari/IE/Edge now defaults to WebM instead of Ogg, and if all goes well, I'll disable the .ogv derivatives tomorrow.
Ok, this has now been done. Existing .ogv derivative files will continue to exist for a while to ensure cached page views don't encounter any surprises, but they will be deleted later, probably after 30 days.
Note that .ogg or .ogv video *uploads* will continue to work, and you may continue to upload .ogv videos if you have them -- they get automatically converted to WebM derivatives for playback.
For our friends in ops, it should now be safe to update video scalers without worrying about the buggy ffmpeg2theora package. :)
-- brion
Please give a shout at any unexpected problems.
-- brion
On Thu, Aug 3, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Brion Vibber <bvibber@wikimedia.org mailto:bvibber@wikimedia.org> wrote: Due to ongoing issues with ffmpeg2theora & upcoming server upgrades, I'm planning to accelerate our migration from Ogg Theora video output to WebM VP8: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T172445 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T172445
== When will it change? ==
Sometime in August 2017 as schedules permit, unless surprises pop up in final testing.
== What will change? ==
Folks using Chrome and Firefox may not notice any difference -- these browsers have used native WebM playback by default for some time. "Ogg" will disappear from the list of optionally-playable and downloadable formats.
In Safari, IE, or Edge where the 'ogv.js' compatibility shim is used, you will see videos automatically show up in WebM mode instead of Ogg mode.
There is a tradeoff: higher quality & lower bandwidth use, but higher CPU usage. On very slow computers or at very high resolutions, you may hit CPU limits at one resolution step lower than with Ogg.
== Why are we making this change? ==
- Eventually we need to go to WebM to support adaptive streaming, so this was always planned for the long term...
- For best quality we use an unreleased version of libogg and ffmpeg2theora, but there are still some bugs in there and we routinely get reports of odd hangs or crashes.
- Ops is updating the servers, and continuing to maintain the custom packages that are still crashy is getting to be problematic.
- Dropping the Ogg format for video will free up disk space and and CPU time, and should result in faster turnaround for derived file generation.
== What about Ogg audio? ==
Ogg is still being used for audio, and will not be affected.
-- brion
Multimedia mailing list Multimedia@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/multimedia
multimedia@lists.wikimedia.org