Hello,
I'm answering a catalog of requirements for a potential buyer. One of the most asked question for years is:
"Is it possible to open attachments (Excel e.a.), edit the content and save the changed attachment again?"
And my answer is: "No. That's possible in SharePoint (aaargl) or if the changed file is stored in an external (file) system".
Can somebody tell me more about the technical constraints? Is a solution thinkable? In my opinion MediaWiki this feature is very important for professional users.
Cheers, Richard
Dr. Richard Heigl
Strategieberatung Hallo Welt! - Medienwerkstatt GmbH
[Mailclosing-Newsletter]http://hallowelt.biz/kontakt/newsletter/
Residenzstraße 2 93047 Regensburg
Tel. +49 (0) 941 - 66080-193 Fax. +49 (0) 941 - 66080-189
www.hallowelt.bizhttp://www.hallowelt.biz/ heigl@hallowelt.bizmailto:heigl@hallowelt.biz
Sitz: Regensburg Amtsgericht: Regensburg Handelsregister: HRB 10467 E.USt.Nr.: DE 253050833 Geschäftsführer: Anja Ebersbach, Markus Glaser, Dr. Richard Heigl, Radovan Kubani
On 10/18/2013 06:16 AM, Richard Heigl wrote:
“Is it possible to open attachments (Excel e.a.), edit the content and save the changed attachment again?”
A WebDAV interface to MediaWiki could be built so that MediaWiki could appear as a filesystem and continue to handle versions as changes are made.
IIRC, when KnowledgeTree was open source 4-5 years ago, it had a WebDAV interface available. Perhaps someone could use that code to build something similar for MediaWiki.
While this is something that is possible, it doesn't exist at the moment. I personally think this would be an awesome addition to MediaWiki.
Mark.
Maybe an FTP interface would be even simpler? AFAIK MS webdav implementations are very buggy and often hard to deal with. Does Excel have the ability to access FTP? IE definitely can do it, so I think office probably also can...
Hi folks,
thanks for your ideas and remarks!
Reading my post here (!), Robert, one of our developers , told me yesterday, that they have already discussed WebDAV internally a few months ago. Then Mark also suggested this way. It sounds promising, but there’s a lot to do and there are some risks. But maybe we should rethink this approach again. I’m a bit skeptical about FTP and SVN. But that’s probably because I can’t visualize it at the moment…
Richard
Dr. Richard Heigl
Strategieberatung Hallo Welt! - Medienwerkstatt GmbH
[Mailclosing-Newsletter]http://hallowelt.biz/kontakt/newsletter/
Residenzstraße 2 93047 Regensburg
Tel. +49 (0) 941 – 66080-193 Fax. +49 (0) 941 – 66080-189
www.hallowelt.bizhttp://www.hallowelt.biz/ heigl@hallowelt.bizmailto:heigl@hallowelt.biz
Sitz: Regensburg Amtsgericht: Regensburg Handelsregister: HRB 10467 E.USt.Nr.: DE 253050833 Geschäftsführer: Anja Ebersbach, Markus Glaser, Dr. Richard Heigl, Radovan Kubani
Von: mediawiki-enterprise-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:mediawiki-enterprise-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] Im Auftrag von ??????? ???????? Gesendet: Samstag, 19. Oktober 2013 11:57 An: MediaWiki for enterprises Betreff: Re: [Mediawiki-enterprise] Frequent requirement - Editing attachments
Maybe an FTP interface would be even simpler? AFAIK MS webdav implementations are very buggy and often hard to deal with. Does Excel have the ability to access FTP? IE definitely can do it, so I think office probably also can...
thanks for your ideas and remarks!
Reading my post here (!), Robert, one of our developers , told me yesterday, that they have already discussed WebDAV internally a few months ago. Then Mark also suggested this way.
There even exists some extension https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:WebDAV but as I understand it's in experimental status. But I've experimented with webdav on windows several years ago and the task was tricky because of various compatibility issues :)
It sounds promising, but there’s a lot to do and there are some risks. But maybe we should rethink this approach again.
I’m a bit skeptical about FTP and SVN. But that’s probably because I can’t visualize it at the moment…
Of course it will be sufficient if you'll make webdav work :) FTP will require a) creating some daemon that will reupload file uploaded via ftp to mediawiki via API. and b) finding a way to pass ftp link to excel in such way that excel will remember that's an ftp file. But just like that, with WebDAV you'll also need to find a way to correctly pass a link to msoffice.
I've just checked FTP - if you open excel as just "excel.exe ftp://host/path.xls" - it will really open that file for editing and when you click save it will be really saved to FTP location! :) also you can specify "ftp://host/path.xls" in File->Open dialog. But of course it doesn't work like that if you click on FTP link from a browser (even from IE) because the browser first downloads it to a temporary folder.
Hi Richie,
... we had an integration with SVN some time ago. Files could be commited via SVN and then used in the MediaWiki like normal file uploads.
Cons: Users need to use SVN to upload/maintain files.
/Alexander Gesinn
Am 18.10.2013 12:16, schrieb Richard Heigl:
Hello,
I’m answering a catalog of requirements for a potential buyer. One of the most asked question for years is:
“Is it possible to open attachments (Excel e.a.), edit the content and save the changed attachment again?”
And my answer is: “No. That’s possible in SharePoint (aaargl) or if the changed file is stored in an external (file) system”.
Can somebody tell me more about the technical constraints? Is a solution thinkable? In my opinion MediaWiki this feature is very important for professional users.
Cheers,
Richard
Dr. Richard Heigl
Strategieberatung
Hallo Welt! - Medienwerkstatt GmbH
Mailclosing-Newsletter http://hallowelt.biz/kontakt/newsletter/
Residenzstraße 2
93047 Regensburg
Tel. +49 (0) 941 – 66080-193
Fax. +49 (0) 941 – 66080-189
www.hallowelt.biz http://www.hallowelt.biz/
heigl@hallowelt.biz mailto:heigl@hallowelt.biz
Sitz: Regensburg
Amtsgericht: Regensburg
Handelsregister: HRB 10467
E.USt.Nr.: DE 253050833
Geschäftsführer:
Anja Ebersbach, Markus Glaser, Dr. Richard Heigl, Radovan Kubani
Mediawiki-enterprise mailing list Mediawiki-enterprise@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-enterprise
As a mediawiki and sharepoint user and admin, editing in place is one of the most required features but also a sign of not knowing what are the consequences. Most tipicaly, from a documentation point of view, edit in place completely trashes any kind of version management, rendering the whole platform useless. If users need to edit in place, use a file system, and forget about proper versioning.
Enviado do meu iPhone
No dia 18/10/2013, às 11:16, Richard Heigl heigl@hallowelt.biz escreveu:
Hello,
I’m answering a catalog of requirements for a potential buyer. One of the most asked question for years is:
“Is it possible to open attachments (Excel e.a.), edit the content and save the changed attachment again?”
And my answer is: “No. That’s possible in SharePoint (aaargl) or if the changed file is stored in an external (file) system”.
Can somebody tell me more about the technical constraints? Is a solution thinkable? In my opinion MediaWiki this feature is very important for professional users.
Cheers, Richard
Dr. Richard Heigl
Strategieberatung Hallo Welt! - Medienwerkstatt GmbH
<image001.jpg>
Residenzstraße 2 93047 Regensburg
Tel. +49 (0) 941 – 66080-193 Fax. +49 (0) 941 – 66080-189
www.hallowelt.biz heigl@hallowelt.biz
Sitz: Regensburg Amtsgericht: Regensburg Handelsregister: HRB 10467 E.USt.Nr.: DE 253050833 Geschäftsführer: Anja Ebersbach, Markus Glaser, Dr. Richard Heigl, Radovan Kubani
Mediawiki-enterprise mailing list Mediawiki-enterprise@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-enterprise
As a mediawiki and sharepoint user and admin, editing in place is one of the most required features but also a sign of not knowing what are the consequences. Most tipicaly, from a documentation point of view, edit in place completely trashes any kind of version management, rendering the whole platform useless. If users need to edit in place, use a file system, and forget about proper versioning.
O_o But aren't normal mediawiki articles edited 'in-place'? :)
Of course! And those are properly versioned. Have you ever diff'ed 2 excel files ?
Users need to understand the consequences of doing things "the easy way"
People are used to save every 5 minutes, even on share point this completely defeats any versioning.
No dia 19/10/2013, às 16:45, vitalif@yourcmc.ru escreveu:
As a mediawiki and sharepoint user and admin, editing in place is one of the most required features but also a sign of not knowing what are the consequences. Most tipicaly, from a documentation point of view, edit in place completely trashes any kind of version management, rendering the whole platform useless. If users need to edit in place, use a file system, and forget about proper versioning.
O_o But aren't normal mediawiki articles edited 'in-place'? :)
Mediawiki-enterprise mailing list Mediawiki-enterprise@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-enterprise
Of course! And those are properly versioned. Have you ever diff'ed 2 excel files ?
Users need to understand the consequences of doing things "the easy way"
People are used to save every 5 minutes, even on share point this completely defeats any versioning.
Hm... Sorry for the late answer, but why do frequent saves defeat versioning? I think it should help versioning, because a smaller amount of changes will be lost in case of conflict...
Of course! And those are properly versioned. Have you ever diff'ed 2 excel files ?
Users need to understand the consequences of doing things "the easy way"
People are used to save every 5 minutes, even on share point this completely defeats any versioning.
Hm... Sorry for the late answer, but why do frequent saves defeat versioning? I think it should help versioning, because a smaller amount of changes will be lost in case of conflict...
With editing a page in Mediawiki most people will save their document at sane times during their editing, such as after making changes to a section or when the entire edit is completed.
Within something like Excel, document saving is a little bit less sane. People are in the habit of pressing CTRL-S after everytime that they make any sort of minor change. This can make reading the diffs difficult.
For example, which set of diffs is more useful?
Set 1: -------------------- 1 1 Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. 2 - Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. 3 - Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. 4 - Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum. 2 + This sentence has been changed to reflect the new opinion of the author. These new opinions are profoundly different than the old opinions. 3 + Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum new opinion eu fugiat nulla pariatur. 4 + Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est new stuff. --------------------
Set 2: -------------------- 1 1 Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. 2 - Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. 2 + This sentence has been changed to reflect the new opinion of the author. These new opinions are profoundly different than the old opinions. 3 3 Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. 4 4 Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum. -------------------- 1 1 Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. 2 2 This sentence has been changed to reflect the new opinion of the author. These new opinions are profoundly different than the old opinions. 3 - Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. 3 + Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum new opinion eu fugiat nulla pariatur. 4 4 Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum. -------------------- 1 1 Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. 2 2 This sentence has been changed to reflect the new opinion of the author. These new opinions are profoundly different than the old opinions. 3 3 Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum new opinion eu fugiat nulla pariatur. 4 - Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum. 4 + Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est new stuff. --------------------
Hopefully the text wrapping won't ruin those two examples...
Thank you, Derric Atzrott
With editing a page in Mediawiki most people will save their document at sane times during their editing, such as after making changes to a section or when the entire edit is completed.
Within something like Excel, document saving is a little bit less sane. People are in the habit of pressing CTRL-S after everytime that they make any sort of minor change. This can make reading the diffs difficult.
Ah, OK, now I understand :) so, one small advantage of FTP is that the save process can be relatively slow so it may lead users to save less frequently :D
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