[Wikipedia-l] Saterlandic Frisian Wikipedia

[Mark Williamson]

Did you read anything I wrote?

I was born in Arizona, and have lived here my entire life, but does
that mean I know everything about it?

Mark

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 21:32:30 +0100, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Mark,
> I was born in Zwaag. Zwaag is a small place with city rights and is now
> part of Hoorn. Zwaag can be found in Westfriesland. I assume that I have
> heard more Westfries spoken than you have. Hoorn, Medemblik and
> Enkhuizen, all Westfrisian cities, were some of the most important
> cities during the Dutch golden age. Apparently you assume that you know
> everything there is to know about all the languages in the word.  Oh, I
> forgot, I have an uncle whose name is Tijmstra, a respectable Frisian
> name. But then again, what do I know?
> 
> Thanks,
>     GerardM
> 
> Mark Williamson wrote:
> 
> >Apparently, you don't realise that there are basically 3 separate
> >Frisian languages.
> >
> >Saterlandic Frisian (East Frisian) speakers most definitely DO NOT use
> >Westlauwer Frisian (West Frisian) as their standard language, nor do
> >North Frisian speakers use Westlauwer Frisian (West Frisian) as their
> >standard language.
> >
> >I don't know if you realise it, but when you are speaking of
> >"Frisian", you seem to be referring only to that "Frisian" spoken in
> >the Netherlands (Westlauwer Frisian). There are related varieties
> >spoken in Germany, in places called "Ostfriesland" and
> >"Nordfriesland", which are not mutually intelligible with the Western
> >Frisian of the Netherlands.
> >
> >Mark
> >
> >On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 15:06:30 +0100, Gerard Meijssen
> ><gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Hoi,
> >>
> >>The term "Westlauwers Fries" is something of an oddity. It is a term
> >>that is hardly used it is not commonly used. When it is used at all, it
> >>is by people who only talk to themselves. Westfries is not a dialect of
> >>Frisian. The term West Frisian may be used by some outside of the
> >>Netherlands, but in my opinion it only shows that they do not look
> >>further than their noses.
> >>
> >>Frisian (ISO 639: fy - the language taught in Dutch schools) is a fairly
> >>recent standardized version of different types of Frisian. Fries is one
> >>of the hot topics in the nl:wikipedia. It is full of people who want to
> >>push their POV on this topic. I hope we will use more disambiguation
> >>pages because in my opinion it is the way forward.
> >>
> >>Thanks,
> >>    GerardM
> >>
> >>Mark Williamson wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>I am discussing this, in English, and if I recall correctly, the
> >>>English terms "West Frisian" and "East Frisian" correspond to the
> >>>Dutch terms "Westlauwers Fries" and "Saterfries".
> >>>
> >>>I am not talking about Dutch dialects or dialects of Westlauwer
> >>>Frisian, but rather about the different varities of Frisian spoken
> >>>variously in two nations, the Netherlands (West Frisian) and Germany
> >>>(East Frisian, Peninsular North Frisian, Insular North Frisian; the
> >>>latter is sometimes even divided into separate languages for each
> >>>island).
> >>>
> >>>I know what I am talking about, I have seen many books in English that
> >>>refer to it this way, though I can't speak for Dutch since I haven't
> >>>read much of anything in Dutch.
> >>>
> >>>Mark
> >>>
> >>>On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 11:05:27 +0100, Gerard Meijssen
> >>><gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Mark,
> >>>>Westfries is not Frisian, it is not even spoken in Friesland. It is
> >>>>spoken in Noord Holland. Some consider this a language some consider it
> >>>>a dialect. However Fries is what goes by the code of fy. If you know
> >>>>Frisian as much as all these other languages, please use its proper name.
> >>>>
> >>>>NB the differences between Oostfries and Westfries are massive indeed :)
> >>>>
> >>>>Thanks,
> >>>>   GerardM
> >>>>
> >>>>Mark Williamson wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>The differences between West Frisian (spoken in the Netherlands) and
> >>>>>East Frisian (spoken in Saterland) are massive.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>It would be rediculous to use the same Wikipedia.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>It might be different if fy: already had some content in Saterland
> >>>>>Frisian, but to the best of my knowledge it is entirely in Western
> >>>>>Frisian with the exception of one article which is bilingual in
> >>>>>Western Frisian and North Frisian, and bilingual I mean it has two
> >>>>>separate versions)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Mark
> >>>>>
> >>>>>On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 15:22:58 -0500, Stephen Forrest
> >>>>><stephen.forrest at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 20:42:52 +0100, Wouter Steenbeek
> >>>>>><musiqolog at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I would like to apply for a Wikipedia in Saterlandic (East) Frisian. Further
> >>>>>>>details can be read at
> >>>>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saterlandic_Frisian_language and soon at the
> >>>>>>>requests page.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>I believe you mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saterland_Frisian_language.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>For the purposes of ISO 639 codes, Saterland Frisian is regarded as a
> >>>>>>dialect of Frisian.  Can you provide a rationale for why working
> >>>>>>within the Frisian Wikipedia is not tenable?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I seem to recall reading that there were different spelling
> >>>>>>conventions for the Frisian spoken in Germany and that spoken in the
> >>>>>>Netherlands.  I have no idea how significant these differences are.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Steve
> >>>>>>
>