Ahem <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Oral_Citations>.
On Tuesday 29 November 2011 03:20 PM, wheredevelsdare(a)hotmail.com wrote:
There seems to be a little bit of misunderstanding. I
was talking of
English Wikipedia and livability of English references.
I have helped a couple of articles attain GA status. We conducted a PR
for FA status and realised some of the refs need to be changed. At GA
level they were accepted due to YES:POV, however to attain FA they
need to be changed to better refs. We have had to give a break and
wait for such refs to come up before we can proceed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:17:21 +0530
From: ashwin.baindur(a)gmail.com
To: wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Quality Issues with English Wikipedia
I agree partially with you, Pranav. Yes, finding reliable sources in
Indic languages can be quite a challenge.
My own personal view is this - But while a source may be in a language
but its utility as a reference is basically language neutral. That
means a source in any language can be used providing you can read it
and cite it. I dont see so many places where sources are not available
in English but are available in indic languages. For vast majority of
article subjects, english language web can provide all the sources you
can possibly need. What is needed is NOT to have an attitude where
anything English is painted as a villain.
Warm regards,
Ashwin Baindur
------------------------------------------------------
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 3:09 PM, <wheredevelsdare(a)hotmail.com
<mailto:wheredevelsdare@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Bigno, Ashwin - you hit the nail on the head.
One other point I dont see mention is availability of reliable
sources. For Indian articles, that is something that can be
difficult to find at times.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:01:57 +0530
From: ashwin.baindur(a)gmail.com <mailto:ashwin.baindur@gmail.com>
To: wikimediaindia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org
<mailto:wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Quality Issues with English Wikipedia
Srikanth, I find it a bit difficult to believe that the reason you
said is the only reason why English editting stopped. It must be a
combination of many things-
* Retirement and reduction of editting by long term editors
* For some reason, the same pleasure no longer felt in editting.
* Hostile atmosphere, lots of rules & edit-warring.
* Switching part of effort to Indic, Commons, GLAM, Outreach etc.
* Lesser recruitment of newbies.
etc
Anyway, whatever be the causes, I think you and I and all of us
agree that we need to make WikiProject India a happening place again.
Warm regards,
Ashwin Baindur
------------------------------------------------------
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Srikanth Ramakrishnan
<parakara.ghoda(a)gmail.com <mailto:parakara.ghoda@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hisham,
Do note, we had ALL that till two years ago.
Since the offline meetups have begun, a lot of English editors
have now reduced editint to concentrate on outreach activities
and all.
--Re,
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Hisham <hisham(a)wikimedia.org
<mailto:hisham@wikimedia.org>> wrote:
On Nov 28, 2011, at 9:26 AM, Ashwin Baindur wrote:
This is a letter to all Indian editors of the English
Wikipedia requesting discussion, cooperation and help.
Recently I was asked to give a three to four minute
presentation on the state of WikiProject India on
English Wikipedia for the session on state of Indic
Wikipedias at the recently concluded WikiConference in
Mumbai. At first I thought nothing about the matter,
but as I was compiling the report, I came across
statistics which would horrify any of us.
To begin with, as of time of writing this post,
WikiProject India has a total of 90,021 articles. This
is a very large number and second only to Hindi
Wikipedia's 100,588 articles. Since all these English
articles cover only India or some aspect of its
geography, history, culture or its people, this set of
90,000+ articles is important to all Indians,
representing the largest core of knowledge about India
on any Wikipedia project.
But all of this is not high quality stuff. User:Svick
on English Wikipedia provides a useful service to
WikProjects on English Wikipedia. He provides a
WikiProject-wise listing of articles which have
improvement tags such as {{unreferenced}},
{{cleanup}}, {{copyedit}} and so on. In his report for
WikiProject India, at the following url:
http://toolserver.org/~svick/CleanupListing/CleanupListingByCat.php?project…
<http://toolserver.org/%7Esvick/CleanupListing/CleanupListingByCat.php?project=India>
you will find that of the 79435 articles in this
project which were assessed by Svick, a total of 52077
articles or 65.6 % are marked for cleanup, with 86271
issues in total. These are tagged with 82 different
types of tags, the most populous being :
* Articles with unsourced statements (6815)
* Articles lacking reliable references (1989)
* Articles needing additional references (4840)
* Articles lacking sources (8970)
* BLP articles lacking sources (1297)
* Articles needing cleanup (2751)
* Articles containing potentially dated statements (9317)
* All articles needing coordinates (14571)
* Articles to be expanded (1020)
Besides this, there are 40,338 articles unassessed for
importance and 20,527 for quality, making a backlog of
60,865 assessments.
In addition, of the 90,000+ articles, there are 43,843
stubs and 10,986 start class articles. All these need
to be developed in time also.
Besides these are a very large number of cryptic
articles, articles pertaining to India but not tagged
on the talk page with the WikiProject banner. The
articles themselves sometimes need more cleanup tags
than are marked at present.
You may have read Sven Manguard's special opinion
editorial in the Signpost some time ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-10-31/Opinio…
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia%3aWikipedia_Signpost/2011-10-31/Opinion_essay>
wherein he has drawn attention to the hundreds of
thousands of articles needing cleanup and improvement
on Wikipedia as a whole. That is exactly the issue
with WikiProject India, as of now.
To me it appears that - Something needs to be done
URGENTLY.
My own suggestion is that this can easily be tackled
if all of us do a little bit every day. Many hands
make light work. There are about 450 active editors
listed on the WikiProject members page. If each of us
decided to do just one cleanup task each day, then we
can do away with 1,64,500 odd problems in a year. Over
time, these issues will fall to negligible levels.
Please reply to this thread with your views. Firstly,
do you agree with me. Is there a problem or am I
sensationalising the case? What exactly are the issues
and how do we resolve them. Can we as Indians rise to
the challenge and bring down these backlogs to
manageable levels. Please give us any ideas, inputs,
insights or critiques that may occur to you.
Many thanks for your note, Ashwin. I think this is a
really important discussion and I agree wholeheartedly
with you about the need to do something, and the need to
do it urgently!
I notice your initiative to Collaboration of the Month on
a select set of nominated articles - and that's fantastic.
That's exactly the kind of stuff that needs to be done.
Here are few thoughts that I had
* We need to create a sense of community and
collaboration. It would really be nice if as many
interested editors as possible sing up. One comment
I've heard from some wikimedians is that there isn't
enough collaborative editing. Can we create some
vehicle for this? For instance, can we take some time
out in community meetups and do a little bit for one
or more of these articles? Can we create some kind of
mini-events equivalent to hackathons? For instance,
can we create an Edit Utsav every (just throwing this
out as an example) on Sunday afternoons every week?
* We need to make a start - no matter how small Even if
you choose to do 2 articles per month for
Collaboration of the Month, that's great and we should
take it from there and slowly build up.
* We need to create excitement and momentum. For this
to happen, we need to be generous in our celebration.
I think every article that interested editors work on
as part of your Collaboration of the Month should be
celebrated - on this mailing list, on the WP:INDIA
talk page, on various social handles (let's
shamelessly exploit Tinu's vast fan following here)
and maybe even in the press.
* We need to have something to work towards (in your
parlance, a beachhead... :-)). I have an idea.
There are a bunch of discussions happening on various
offline initiatives. One challenge that these will
face will be to select a reasonable set of acceptable
quality articles on India. I don't know what that
number should be or how long it should take - but
whatever the determinations are on both of these, what
if you have these work with the offline initiative
(which I also know is also very dear to your heart.)
* We need to magnify an already big message. One common
refrain I've heard from many who are interested in
editing Wikipedia is the equivalent of "everything is
covered; I don't know what to edit". Asking folks in
India to edit about India is a powerfully relevant
message - and one that they are likely to intuitively
connect with. ..and as you've outlined, there is no
shortage of articles - many of great importance /
relevance. Maybe this could be a message covered in
every outreach sessions that community folks
undertake? [Edit] India!
In all of this, do let me know if there is anything we can
do to help and we'll do our best.
Best
hisham
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--
Regards,
Srikanth Ramakrishnan.
Wikipedia Coimbatore Meetup on December 10th.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetup/Coimbatore
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