[WikiEN-l] status correction

[Ben E.]

Ah, I do believe I see your point. I believe encephelon said it best on your
RfA: The remedy did not follow from the findings of fact (Admins are held to
higher standings, your actions, etc) and the principles (admins can be
de-sysopped if they abuse their position) didn't give an appropriate remedy.
I agree as well to your point how the community should not and cannot be
expected to make their own findings of fact and remedy in the RfA.

What we had was a transfer of the duties of ArbCom to the community,
seemingly against their own principles and ours at
[[Wikipedia:Administrators]], which shows that adminship can only be removed
by Jimbo Himself or by that very ArbCom.

However, I still disagree with your idea that the RfA was one to de-sysop;
rather, it was more of a confirmation. But that's just quibbling over terms
;). Hopefully, the committee can expand and define the case to completely
reflect it and the community's wishes.

Regards,
[[:en:User:Bratsche|ben]]


On 11/3/05, steve v <vertigosteve at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> --- "Ben E." <bratsche1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Bureaucrats don't count the neutral votes as actual
> > "votes."
> > Also, your RfA was to be treated as a normal one.
>
> This is at the heart of the matter, and why the
> majority voted to punt it back: Under no circumstances
> would a post-RFAR RFA possibly be considered to be a
> "normal one." Ask yourself, Benjamin: how is the
> community to make heads or tails of an RFA as a remedy
> for a case which the Arbcom itself could only find
> generic 'findings of fact'?
>
> James F., who supported the RFA idea, argued against
> Theresa's desysop vote, saying "but we massively
> prejudice a community vote by suspending his
> priviledges." This is highly interesting (not
> sarcastic) because any simplistically rendered
> "findings of fact" likewise "massively prejudice a
> community vote." While veteran member Theresa and I
> quibbled about the "morality" of unblocking oneself
> (she was reasonably responsive to comments though),
> she nevertheless stood firm for a decisive decision.
> Gotta give the lady credit.
>
> > ...based on the quote from
> > [[User:Raul654]] (an arbitrator) on the bottom of
> > the page in the "Comments"
> > section found in centered italics:
> ...
> > Under those qualifications, your RfA was closed
> > early by Theresa knott as
> > failed, and the case was sent back to the
> > Arbitration Committee.
>
> Wait a minute. It wasnt an 'RFA to sysop,' because I
> already was one. It was an RFA to 'desysop,' which, if
> you only count oppose/non-oppose votes (29 out of
> 102), was indeed rather successful, IIDSSM.
>
> Respectfully, what youre really complaing about is not
> the outcome, but the indecision inherent to that kind
> of remedy --"mob justice" FLOABT. All of this
> confusion is the direct result of Arbcom's unique
> remedy, which is the direct result of an inability to
> even define the nature of the case: There was (and
> probably still is) disagreement within the Arbcom
> about not just the remedy, but the nature of the
> offense:
> * Jayjg: "I think the wording needs to be modified to
> something like "gain undue advantage with respect to a
> dispute etc...."
> * James: "I absolutely, vehemently disagree. The use
> of the rollback button must always be used only for
> reverting pure vandalism..."
> * Fred: "I don't think this is about using rollback
> for a revert. It is about unblocking yourself after a
> 3RR block then editing a protected page...."
>
> The rub, for those who missed it: There should be some
> agreement on what the actual offense is before
> deciding on a penalty. The errors made in my case
> would get the whole thing thrown out in a normal
> judicial process, where theres a more keen
> understanding of how misjudgements can do more harm
> than the original offense.
>
> But with that said, I do feel for the Arbcom and their
> "thankless job." Fred was correct when he said that
> the Arbcom needs Defenders to assist defendants in
> making their cases, and Prosecutors to make a case
> thats coherent enough to begin with, with a targeted
> remedy. Life isnt black and white, people.
>
> SV
> The weakest link is a pillar of strength.
>
>
>
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--
Bratsche-It means "viola!"